So how does your argument apply any less to the existence of Israel inside the Green Line? "Right of Return", "al Nakba", all that? All your arguments point to a conclusion you deny -- that Israel doesn't deserve to exist.
I clearly stated, that I think the only thing Palestinians can be reasonably given is borders based on pre-67, with Palestinians giving up the right of return and all claims to any other land, and any monetary compensation.
Here's just one of many instances where I expressed this view:
Message 18143607
"I believe that it works for both sides - Israel retreats 100% to pre-67, Palestinians give up all claims to any other territory, all claims to right of return, even all claims to monetary compensation. Privately, I think it would be in Israeli interest to pay something - they accomplish two things: make the deal easier to swallow, hopefully undercutting the Palestinian extremists even more, and more importantly, a wealthier, rebuilt Palestine is a safer one, and a better neighbor with profit for Israel down the road (as experience post WWII in German, Japan and other places showed). But, I would not make it a demand - up to the Israelis. However, they do have to give back the land - every inch of it.
Nadine:
Do "vicious colonial states" deserve to survive in any form? Is "apartheid" ok in smaller borders? The questions answer themselves, when you put them that way (which is why I talk about codes).
You can PROJECT whatever in he** it is that you like. I made NO *statement* to the effect that Israel does not deserve to survive. Saying "well my secret code detector tells me you really feel that way" is worth exactly ZERO.
Now lets get back to reality here. Not only did I not imply any such thing I clearly STATED the opposite. I have said, on numerous occasions that ISRAEL DESERVES TO EXIST IN PEACE IN PRE-67 BORDERS. Indeed, I've defended Israel re: the Lebanese border conflict, and vis a vis Syria. So, you can either look to my repeated statements clearly in black and white, or you can go hunting with a "code-detector" for murky suspicions. My statements stand - all of them.
How can a colonial regime stand? Well, for one, it can stop being colonial - which means it can go back to INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS pre-67, and GIVE UP SETTLEMENTS RECOGNIZED BY NO COUNTRY ON EARTH. Now is that clear? Or is it all one big whole world antisemitic conspiracy? What does the secret code say? Questions of international legitimacy are really quite straightforward here.
As to the apartheid issue - well, the U.S. had a problem with Jim Crow laws. That didn't prevent the U.S. from existing for one second. Hopefully no antisemitism in that - what does the secret code say? Is it OK for the U.S. to have existed back then? Oh, OK, thanks. Now, for their own good, Israel will have to one day deal with the issues here, but that does not deligitemize their state.
As Bibi says, the world judges regimes by three standards -- a low one for dictatorships, a high one for democracies, and a special rarified one just for Israel. It is not possible to show someone upholding these triple standards that he is being anti-Semitic -- that's not his intent -- it just works out that way.
Oh, the great Bibi is dragged out as an authority, LOL! I quake. I know he's good at breaking agreements, but I didn't realize he too has a secret code, all ready to compartmentalize the world according to his little categories. Boy, his perceptions count for a lot, what with the success he's had.
So now you are saying that armed with Bibi's categories and standards, plus your secret code, you can discern antisemitism that cannot even be shown: "It is not possible to show someone upholding these triple standards that he is being anti-Semitic". Just listen to this nonsense! Now, I don't know on what planet you live, but the climate is definitely not healthy. Wow, has Debka completely addled your mind???
You then follow that by stuff like "someone cannot be shown to be antisemitic" but in effect they are "because it works out that way" because they hold triple standards and the code, the code, they're coming for us, help Debka, and... - Nadine! Nadine! Wake up, wake up, you're just having a horrible nightmare, here, have some tea. Really Nadine, how do you expect anyone to swallow this nonsense and accept it as some kind of valid argument??? Wow. You'll have to do a lot better than that before you can level charges of antisemitism.
Nowhere is this clearer than in a judgment that says, the Arabs have failed societies but Israel should just get out of their face and leave them alone.
Why? Is it Israel's right to re-fashion Arab societies? No. But it is Israel's obligation to live in INTERNATIOALLY recognized borders - pre-67, and not occupy another people, whether Arab or Eskimo, failed, successful, or in between.
Not to mention, as I've pointed out in countless posts, there really is no choice, and in fact is in Israel's best interest.
And if Israel is in pre-67 borders and as the Saudi put it: "must be destroyed", THEN Israel has every right to defend themselves with every means necessary, and I support that 100%, just as I support Israel 100% wrt. Lebanon. But they must be in the right - which means, pre-67 borders. |
