More from the transcript at msnbc.com.
Up next, a boatload of illegal Haitian immigrants arrives on the shore of Miami. Could it affect Governor Jeb Bush’s campaign? Could it help it? We’ll see.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MATTHEWS: It's a political wild card for President Bush's brother. A boatload of 200 Haitians that appeared on Florida shore early this week. According to a federal policy that treats Haitian refuges differently from other groups, they will be indefinitely detained while they apply for asylum. That's prompted protests by the local Haitian community and forced Governor Jeb Bush to defend his position.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JEB BUSH ®, FLORIDA: We need to make sure that we don't have mass migration coming into South Florida. I have no problems with the position that I have taken. I think it is the common sense, reasonable position, and I'll tell you something else. To turn this into a political issue five days out, I think will back fire if that's the efforts of the other side.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Republican Congressman Mark Foley and Democratic Congressman Peter Deutsch are both from Florida. Congressman Foley, is the governor right? This issue is going to backfire on those who've raised the protest about following this procedure?
REP. MARK FOLEY ®, FLORIDA: Yes, the governor is absolutely right. In fact, if we change the policy now, we will in fact invite thousands of people to come from Haiti, risk their lives at sea to come to a situation where we will not be able to accommodate them. So Mr. McBride apparently has suggested that we go ahead, grant this amnesty to all 300 people. It's the wrong message, wrong policy.
MATTHEWS: Is this interest groups politics? Is that what's going on here Mr. Foley?
FOLEY: Oh I think there is a little bit of interest group politics going on here, but the most important thing we have to do is protect our borders and not just from Haitians, but Guatemalans, Nicaraguans and every group. We have to have a fair and reasonable policy, but it has to be one based on a legal premise. You file legally from the country you're leaving and then if you do have, in fact, political asylum, we'll consider that. But to say to people, one foot hits the shore, you're legally allowed to say is a bad policy.
MATTHEWS: Let's go to Congressman Deutsch, your view of this. Is this a hot political football for the president or is this a winner for him in the general election?
REP. PETER DEUTSCH (D), FLORIDA: Well I don't think Jeb Bush could have looked worse yesterday. Mark, you and I both know and as Chris did the introduction, Haitians are treated different. Because if that foot landed and that was a Cuban, they would not be sent to...
MATTHEWS: You don't understand...
DEUTSCH: ... detention.
MATTHEWS: They're treated...
DEUTSCH: They would be...
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: They're treated...
DEUTSCH: They would be Americans.
MATTHEWS: Congressman Deutsch, are they treated differently than other people or simply differently from the Cubans who are treated differently than anyone else?
DEUTSCH: Well no, they're treated differently in that there has been a federal government initiative that they automatically go to an indefinite detention. Indefinite...
MATTHEWS: But what would you do with them if they got here illegally? What would you do? Welcome them?
DEUTSCH: Well you know again-there's a whole issue that they need to be able to make the case of being able to make a well-grounded (UNINTELLIGIBLE) persecution. But I think the real issue here...
Matthews: Wait a minute, let's stop...
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: No. No. No. Congressman Deutsch, no.
DEUTSCH: OK.
MATTHEWS: I want you to make the point here. We put that puppet government in office in Haiti, that's the Bill Clinton government. You can say it's the Democrat's government. Why are we allowing people to claim political asylum from a government we set up? I remember Jimmy Carter was involved...
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: ... in that and Colin Powell...
DEUTSCH: Chris...
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: ... they put those guys in there...
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: Chris, as you well know, the government is not the same government now, and the situation there where people do have well-grounded fears of persecution. But let me mention I think the real issue...
FOLEY: It is Aristide. It is the government.
DEUTSCH: Mark, if I can-Mark, if I can follow-up. The real issue...
MATTHEWS: Wait a minute. Isn't Aristide government or isn't it?
DEUTSCH: You know what...
MATTHEWS: Let's get the facts straight here.
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: Let me just mention...
MATTHEWS: Isn't Aristide the government that we put in there that's still in there?
DEUTSCH: We're not there. American soldiers are not there. There are a lot of things wrong going on in Haiti. I mean people are being killed there. There are well-grounded fears of persecution. But yesterday, the real issue was how Jeb Bush responded to Congresswoman Meek. He was arrogant. He was insensitive, and that's what people want-don't want from a governor and that's why he's going to get fired in a couple days from now.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Well that's a political assessment sir, but what should he have done? Changed the administrative process of this government a few days before an election so he could pander to some groups and win a few more votes.
DEUTSCH: No, no, but I think that the governor could have been a lot more sensitive to women and children jumping off a boat, risking their lives, the way he responded to Congresswoman Meek and that's why he's changed. He really needs to be fired and that's why the people... [EDITORIAL COMMENT: "SNIFFLE"]
MATTHEWS: But you know Mr. Deutsch...
DEUTSCH: ... going to fire...
MATTHEWS: Mr. Deutsch, you know that half of Latin America would be here this week if they could get off the boat and be welcomed with open arms.
DEUTSCH: Well I think...
MATTHEWS: Latin America is not exactly a great place to live. They want to all come here. The question is will they obey the law when they first get here? And you say they should be allowed to break the law when they...
DEUTSCH: No...
MATTHEWS: ... first get here.
DEUTSCH: ... that's not true...
MATTHEWS: What are you saying?
DEUTSCH: What I'm saying is that people ought to have the ability to make cases of well-grounded fear of persecution, and we ought not to be treating people differently at this point in time, which is exactly-and I think the governor of the state of Florida ought to be a heck of a lot more sensitive to people who are literally risking their lives and really the sensitivity that he showed yesterday...
MATTHEWS: OK.
DEUTSCH: ... is something that I don't think any of us...
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: OK, why don't you come back? Let's talk more about this question because I think it's a hot political potato and I'm not sure either side has all the truth on its side. |
