BRIT HUME, HOST: There's an old adage in tennis that applies to politics, as well. Never change a winning game and always change a losing game. The Democrats clearly had the losing game this political season. One of the big questions in Washington today was what will the changes be?
For more on that, we turn to a journalist who's also been a political strategist, one who has known victory and defeat, Bill Kristol, editor of the Weekly Standard, and of course, a FOX News contributor.
Bill, what do you think the Democrats are thinking and what kind of things do you expect them to do? By the way, our Jim Mills, who is an assiduous reporter for us on Capitol Hill, reports that he is quoting sources saying that, indeed, Dick Gephardt will stand down as leader and try to focus his attentions on other things, while remaining in the House.
BILL KRISTOL, EDITOR, THE WEEKLY STANDARD: He will, and I think Nancy Pelosi will win the contest next week, if there even is a contest to succeed Dick Gephardt, as leader of the House Democrats, which means someone who voted against the war in Iraq will lead the House Democrats. I would say, listening to an awful lot of Democrats today, reading some of their e-mails, their missives to their compatriots, they're having a nervous breakdown.
They cannot believe that Bush has done this to them. They don't have a very high opinion of President Bush, and he has outmaneuvered them. He put everything on the line, and you've really got to give him credit for this.
Against the conventional wisdom of many in his own party, as well as Democrats, he went out around the country and he dragged the Republicans up, I think, a point or two and won those key Senate seats. Impressive, gutsy performance, I would say, by the president.
I think the Democrats are at some risk of losing their mind. They are convincing themselves that only if they had really gone after the president, vociferously, and mean-spiritedly, if they had sounded more like The New York Times, if all of them had opposed the war on Iraq, if they had really come out after tax hikes, then they would have been in good shape.
HUME: Isn't that the old argument that you often hear, that you cannot beat Republicans by acting like or by being Republicans? And that "me too-ism" doesn't work? I mean, that's kind of in itself an adage of politics, isn't it?
KRISTOL: It is. But the Democrat who beat Republicans in the last 10 years was Bill Clinton and he did so by going to the center in certain important ways.
I talked with a very senior Democratic official at one of the Democratic committees, a month ago. He wouldn't let me talk about this until after election day. He thought they had a real chance to certainly hold the Senate, and he thought to pick up House seats, and on September 29, the bottom fell out of Democratic candidates...
HUME: Why?
KRISTOL: On September 29, Bonior and McDermott, two Democratic congressmen, appeared on TV from Baghdad and said that not only did they oppose the president's policies, but you couldn't trust President Bush. In fact, you probably could trust President Bush somewhat less than you could trust Saddam Hussein. And that brought back all the memories of the Democratic party, the McGovern, Carter party Democratic Party (UNINTELLIGIBLE) back.
And think about the Democrats in October. Carter got the Nobel peace prize. Walter Mondale gets drafted to run and replace Paul Wellstone in Minnesota. Bill Clinton re-emerges in the last week. It was that Democratic Party and I think that didn't do them any good.
But I think they're convincing themselves they need to be more anti- war and more anti-tax cuts, and I think it's a recipe for suicide.
HUME: Nancy Pelosi will certainly likely be that way, if she's the leader and that, as Major Garrett earlier, she becomes the face and voice of House Democrats. What about the Senate?.
KRISTOL: On that, I mean, Dick Gephardt saved the House Democrats. They lost, what, three or four seats or something like that. I mean, they were in freefall after the Baghdad Democrats dominated.
Gephardt came out with the president, remember, the next week, supported the president on Iraq, even though he could not take most of his caucus with him. It blurred the issue, I think, for voters, and it made it hard for most Republican Congressmen or challengers to legitimately say that this was a referendum on Iraq and then, supporting the president.
HUME: In fact, the issue that they ended up attacking Democrats on was the Department of Homeland Security legislation, which, of course, failed to pass.
KRISTOL: Right. And which turned out to be much more effective than people like me thought. I thought it kind of an esoteric issue having to do with union rules.
But people have to sense, gee, the president in whom we trust as Commander in Chief, says this is important for our security. And the Democrats, because the unions are upset, they want it unionize these workers and have these complicated labor rules for them. They're not going to let the president set up the department the way he thinks, and I think that did hurt the Democrats.
HUME: Do you suspect that Daschle is in any trouble? That there might be a move to replace him as leader or will he try to go in a new direction as a leader?
KRISTOL: I don't know. I gather he's going to stay where he is. At least, he plans to, and I don't think there will be a challenge to him, from what I've been able to pick up today.
I think he is going to have a tough time. I think he had the right instincts, mostly, which was you could not be the party of tax hikes. That you probably had to support the president, albeit grudgingly, on Iraq. He probably was able to minimize the damage to his own party, but he's going to have a very (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Democratic Party on his hands, over the next few months.
HUME: Terry McAuliffe was arguing today that the fact that the Democrats captured governorships in what, Illinois, Michigan, Pennsylvania, big, important elections, those are battleground states in every presidential election, means that they will be in a stronger position come 2004 because of those states. What is your take on that view?
KRISTOL: Those were pretty centrist Democrats. They were Clinton Democrats. In Michigan, it was a law enforcement Democrat. Arizona, I think, where the Democrat probably won. I think we now think she was the attorney general. Ed Rendell, a capable mayor of the city of Philadelphia, who took on the unions.
I would say -- I'm not a Democrat, but I would say that the message of this election is, in fact, Clinton's message -- Clinton, at his politically most successful, which is you got to be moderate to be credible, and the Democrats' problem at the end of the day was that the president cited, I think correctly after Labor Day, that we have to take on Saddam and that put the Democrats on the defensive, though they grudgingly ended up supporting him. I think voters still had doubts about their commitment to really defending America.
HUME: Got the worst of both worlds, then, didn't they?
KRISTOL: In a way, yes.
HUME: All right, Bill, thanks very much. Great to have you.
foxnews.com |
