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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group

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To: FaultLine who started this subject12/5/2002 12:04:11 AM
From: Bilow  Read Replies (2) of 281500
 
Hi all; Raed not enthusiastic on US help to change regime in Baghdad:

Where is Raed?
Raed, somewhere in Iraq, December 5, 2002

I understand now why Diane [ letterfromgotham.blogspot.com ] doesn’t want to have a comments link on her blog. First I thought that I would only put a link to L. Monkey’s post. [ vaspider.surreally.net ]

She basically did what I wanted to do and for a moment I just felt like hiding behind her, some of these comment did scare me.

But a couple of hours later I decided I do want to shout back. And I am not putting a comments link this time.

Deoxy wrote a fine suggestion in the comments link below:
“Now SHUT THE F--- UP and learn 
to appreciate us a little!!!”


OK, let us all have 5 minutes of silence to do some appreciation.

I appreciate the dropping of tons of bombs on my country.
I appreciate the depleted uranium used in these bombs.
I appreciate the whole policy of dual containment which kept the region constantly on the boil because it was convenient for the US.
I appreciate the support the US government shows to all the oppressive governments in the region only to dump them after they have done what was needed of them.
I appreciate the US role in the sanctions committee.
I appreciate its effort in making me look for surgical gloves and anesthetic in the black market just to get a tooth pulled out, because these supplies are always being vetoed by the sanctions committee.
I appreciate the policies of a country which has spent a lot of time and effort to sustain economic sanctions that punished the Iraqi people while it had no effect on Saddam and his power base, turning us into hostages in a political deadlock between the Iraqi government and the US government.
I appreciate the role these sanctions had in making a country full of riches so poor.
I appreciate watching my professors having to sell their whole personal libraries to survive, and seeing their books being bought by UN staff who take home as souvenirs.
I have so much appreciation it is flowing out of my ears.

Back to Deoxy:

“F--- us, huh? OK, rot under 
Hussein's rule - we don't have to
help you. You are angry as though
we OWE it to you - we don't. Be
glad we help at all, EVER”.


Honey-bunny no one asked you to friggin’ come here. And no one asked for your help. It is your government that has been poking its nose in the region’s affairs. Why is it always forgotten that the US government supported the Islamic extremists during the cold war era as a way to keep Soviet influence at bay. Well I guess it backfired now, didn’t it? Just as the US support to Iraq has backfired.

“In his affidavit, Teicher writes that ‘CIA Director [William] Casey personally spearheaded the effort to ensure that Iraq had sufficient military weapons, ammunition and vehicles to avoid losing the Iran–Iraq war.’ The United States supplied ‘the Iraqis with billions of dollars of credits,’ claims Teicher, and offered ‘military intelligence and advice to the Iraqis, and by closely monitoring third country arms sales to Iraq made sure that Iraq had the military weaponry required.’”
opendemocracy.net

And guess who Reagan sent in 1983 as an emissary to give Saddam all sorts of military advice: Donald Rumsfeld. What I want to say is don’t stick your thingy in places where it doesn’t belong. It will get hurt. And I am definitely not asking for your help, your so called help has already done too much damage so keep out of my back yard PLEASE!

We give the stand to lanny now:

“If all your people got gut 
and stand up who could f--- you
up, eh?”


Excuse me there but who do you think is getting broken bottles shoved up their ass? and who is getting his balls electrocuted? Don’t you ever call me a whiner. You don’t know what its like to have a member of your family taken away from you because he is suspected of anti-governmental activities, this suspicion being based on a couple of foreign friends he has. You don’t know what your life looks like after a family member has been executed because he spoke to the wrong people and expressed an honest opinion. If I may quote DEOXY here “SHUT THE F--- UP and learn to appreciate us a little!!!”. You stay where you are and let me deal with my shit.

About mike’s question:

“So, what would you do? 
Come on folks. Instapundit has
brought us all here. Lots of
people are reading. This is your
chance to show everyone just
how stupid George Bush is. Let’s
hear your ideas that make his
look so lame in comparison.”


I do believe that you are smart enough to know there is no answer to that question. And as lynn has said in her comment, We can't go back in time and undo what has already been done. What is coming is inevitable. Everybody seems so entrenched in their positions. Besides, the regime change plan has nothing to do with 9/11 and al-Qaida or the war on Terrorism. These events only brought everything to a head, or maybe even delayed that policy because the US had to deal with Afghanistan first. I quote from an open letter written on the 19th of February 1998 to William J. Clinton from the Committee for Peace and Security in the Gulf:

“[….] Only a determined program to change the regime in Baghdad will bring the Iraqi crisis to a satisfactory conclusion. For years, the United States has tried to remove Saddam by encouraging coups and internal conspiracies. These attempts have all failed. Saddam is more wily, brutal and conspiratorial than any likely conspiracy the United States might mobilize against him. Saddam must be overpowered; he will not be brought down by a coup d'etat. But Saddam has an Achilles' heel: lacking popular support, he rules by terror. The same brutality which makes it unlikely that any coups or conspiracies can succeed, makes him hated by his own people and the rank and file of his military. Iraq today is ripe for a broad-based insurrection. We must exploit this opportunity.”
centerforsecuritypolicy.org

And you might also like to take a look at the people who have signed that open letter among them you will find Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld (the same Rumsfeld who in '83 went to Baghdad to tell saddam that the US will give saddam’s use of chemical weapons in the war against Iran the blind eye), Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz and Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage.

The US moves in mysterious ways. So don’t expect any answers to your question.

Today is the last day of Ramadan. And tomorrow is Eid al-Fitr, so happy Eid to all of you. And may peace be upon us all. I am shutting up for the next couple of days.
where_is_raed.blogspot.com

-- Carl
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