My apologies to all those who've already had to live through the campaign of drumbeat=mikesloan=Merrick Walsh. The time's coming, though, when investigators may be ready to piece together the internet trail, and, there's a fascinating dynamic at play in these posts. For quick review I've just collected a small, representative, sampling of these posts (edited out of mercy) that rail against media outlets when they criticize David Walsh and quote these same news sources extensively when the articles are critical of Walsh's adversaries and/or dead and/or former employees. This is a poster who repeatedly claims to want to have all the facts before they decide who's guilty, but has been unwavering from the start in having already concluded who is innocent (i.e. David Walsh and his cohorts in Calgary). Multiply this number of posts X 20 or 30, add numerous exclamation marks and IMOs and IMHOs and you've got the complete set. There's a never changing subtext:
From: drumbeat Feb 16 1997
many people want something for nothing........This whole negative campaign against Bre-X has been orchestrated. You must see that now and who the conductor was. I'm sure I said until I hear otherwise, and I haven't heard otherwise, from the decision makers IE THE PRESIDENT OF INDONESIA and his advisor MR HASAN, there is not the slightest possibility of somebody getting something for nothing. Bre-X has done nothing wrong legally. Their only mistake is that they possibly didn't follow protocol as Mr Walsh has already stated. Bre-X and their Indonesian partners have earned the rights to the motherlode they found and they will not be losing any of it. That's what this whole issue is all about. Bre-X has to be treated with absolute fairness...
Follow the money as I have heard so many times on this thread. Who stood to benefit from Bre-x getting screwed and who didn't care, in the name of greed, about Indonesia's reputation? i think we all know the answer to that now and as I have been saying for a very long time it seems , they are out of the loop. Seriously, what would you do if you were in The President's Position especially after this has become, and is expanding every day, into a FULL-BLOWN INTERNATIONAL INCIDENT. I know, I know we have all gone through hell over this but have some confidance in our fearless leader. So far so good you know. He hasn't let us down yet. Obviously we can't be privy to all the negotiations and I don't think he can come out and hold our hands all the time even though I'm sure he wants to allay our anxieties as much as possible. We also have some responsibilities ourselves and I feel you are being responsible by contributing to this thread.
From: drumbeat Feb 16 1997
Let's make sure the Feb 23/97 issue of New York sunday Times gets published on our thread.
IMO
Hi ole 49r.......I have no idea what the article will be about except to say that I predict that it is going to very interesting and probably more than a little enlightening to many of our fellow threaders.
From: drumbeat Feb 17 1997
Follow the money as many people on this thread have said...
Hi Barry....I want to check something & will get back soon.
IMO
I know at least one of Friday's gang of 6-7 analysts previously saying that Barrick was going to get the deal so I wouldn't give too much substance to what is flying around right now.
Always ask yourself in whose interest is it for Bre-X to go down and as well in whose interest is it to go up. I believe it answers most of what is expressed both here on this thread or anywhere else. This is and will continue to be a very tramatic experience for a lot of the so-called experts, etc. It is not only you-know-who who has lost face, credibility, etc. here. Don't you remember people like Leishman and Ing being paraded out night after night it seemed to pan Bre-X and promote you-know-who? These people and similar others have to be in big trouble with their clientele. Their future is on the line here. They are just as desparate as you-know-who? And they are probably still being sold a bill of goods. Personally unless I read it on the Bre-X web site or read it from credible sources such as The Dow Jones articles that Nugget has posted on our thread, I may read it but I now discount most of it as I have a feel now for those who seem to have their act together and those that don't. I said a long time ago on this thread, one of, if not my first, post, that you-know-who was out of the loop. After the problems this has created for Indonesia it was only common sense to me to realize that you-know-who didn't have a prayer. but I was labelled a kook etc still to this day . I don't care about the labels I just want the facts. I'll be back.
From: drumbeat Feb 17 1997
I always always enjoy your company, ole 49r
Hi ole 49r....just had to say that.
From: drumbeat Feb 17 1997
Stop wasting people's time with nonsense........
Hi Lorne...this is not personal but smarten up big time You go back and reread that article and look who the author is (are), what the publication is, who is being quoted and stop being an idiot. goodbye!!!!
From: drumbeat Feb 18 1997
You'll do fine
IMO
Hi Joseph....good investment. I'm looking forward to the details. just saw a block trade
From: drumbeat Feb 18 1997
Too many people are getting snowed!!!!
Please everyone go and read Bob's post. You all thought I was nuts about the media. Well I wasn't and you all know that now. Stop listening to all the negative bullshit They almost stole it once and the are trying to do it again you can rest assured of that
From: drumbeat Feb 18 1997
The most important person in the gold-digging business is David Walsh
From: drumbeat Feb 18 1997
What a great time to buy!!!!
From: drumbeat Feb 19 1997
A big plus++++++++++
IMO One of the big advantages I see here is that the Bre-X Minerals Group management can now move onto other things such as BSR and BXO.
From: drumbeat Feb 19 1997
Perceptive!!!! ....good post
IMO
What's key here is where does Bre-X go with its 45% I don't think most people realize that the production costs are less than $100. Do you realize the significance of that alone never mind the eventual size of the deposit? What are the industry norms? What is Barrick's? What is Placer's? This alone increases BRE-X's value BIG TIME. It was a systematic attempt to discredit Bre-X today. Don't be fooled into selling your stock. I'm sure it will not be at these prices for long.
From: drumbeat Feb 20 1997
Contrary to this snow campaign we've been getting........ contrary to this orchestrated campaign that Bre-X did something wrong in Indonesia Bre-X did everything correct. As Mr Walsh stated if there was any error on Bre-X's part it was protocol. Bre-X followed all the laws, filled in all the correct forms, did everything by the book.
The only problem is THE MOTHERLODE IS SO BLOODY BIG AND THE PRODUCTION COSTS ARE SO LOW THAT IT BECAME TOO TEMPTING FOR AN UNETHICAL OUTSIDER WHO HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH BUSANG.
WHAT IS UNBELIEVABLE IS TO THIS DAY I DON'T THINK THIS UNETHICAL OUTSIDER OR ITS SUPPORTERS REALIZE THAT THIS UNETHICAL OUTSIDER DID SOMETHING FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG. THIS UNETHICAL OUTSIDER BROUGHT A LOT OF SHAME NOT ONLY TO INDONESIA BUT TO THE WORLD MINING COMMUNITY. BUT THIS UNETHICAL OUTSIDER HAS A LOT OF POWER IN OUR SOCIETY AND THEY HAVE MANAGED TO CONVINCE SOME PEOPLE THAT BRE-X SCREWED UP WHICH THEY DID NOT.
There are many BIG TIME POSITIVES here for shareholders of the Bre-X Minerals Group of stocks. I'm not selling anything and will be adding every opportunity I get.
From: drumbeat Feb 20 1997
I don't know if you are worth the trouble but.... Hi bob bundy.......I really don't know if you are worth the trouble but what the hell I have a few minutes to spare this evening so what the h...I'll give it a shot. Why don't you enlighten us as to how Bre-X screwed up seeing as you are inferring that you have access to all the details. Where did you get these facts? And remember we've had enough BS to last a lifetime on this thread so be careful. 45% looks a lot better than 20% of what is lookin more' and more like a 200,000+ million ounce gold mine with $75. production costs. Or do you have more expertise than Morgan Stanley as well?
From: drumbeat Feb 21 1997
Without Mr Walsh we would probably have have nothing right now and I feel you are constantly trying to demonize him.
Hi William...you are definitely a weird shareholder and I just don't understand you. I'm going to leave it at that. Haven't you seen enough of the press to realize that they usually get it wrong for whatever reason.
As Alberto has said so many times the only mistake Bre-X made was to find too much gold.
From: drumbeat Feb 21 1997
I believe Mr Walsh made the best of a very bad situation he was PUT IN
Hi Walter......Do you remember the days of "we were going to lose everything", now we have 45% I feel fine and I'm sure the stock will rebound shortly. how many times have we gone through this before to bounce back when emotions calm down. I also know that if I wanted to buy into Busang through Bre-x I would want the stock to be low in price. Who knows what is really going on here?
From: drumbeat Feb 22 1997
I think Bre-X should be commended for their brilliant strategy of chosing to work with the Decision-Makers in Indonesia
IMO
I feel in my bones that there is a continuation of this orchestrated campaign that has been going on against Bre-X for several months now.
From: drumbeat Feb 22 1997
I'm glad Mr Walsh is speaking out.
IMO
Hi Bob......I'm glad that Mr Walsh is going to be proactive and start speaking out. I think very few people have a clue, I'm not saying I do either, but I just think very few have any idea about what has been going on and what he had to do to come up with what looks like to me a very very good deal for Bre-x shareholders. Unfortunately, I'm not surprised by the negative press, they are on a very specific mission to bring down the price of Bre-X stock.
As Turk has been so fond of saying : Follow the money!!!!!!
To whose advantage is it for Bre-X's stock to go down?
If there wasn't major activity going on, out of sight, you know those dirty secrets again, there would not be this frenzy and such a vicious assault on Bre-X. Why would anyone care? No, there is no question in my mind that someone wants Busang big time and they will do almost anything to get it. I think your post is once again very very informative and i recommend to everyone on this thread to read it and reread it
I just keep asking myself that question, to whose advantage is it for Bre-x stock to go down, (I believe I know who), over and over and it has been my saving grace and has keep me focused on what is happenin' here.
From: mikesloan Mar 24 1997
This thread is quite a place...
Killborn the engineering firm are professional and have drilled over 3000 holes and yet we have people on this thread suggesting that these unnamed sources know more and that this is a bogus goldfind.
Killborn (i know i'm not spelling their name right) may well be suing a lot of people before it is all over.
We hear suggestions Bre-X management may be in on some scam and yet they have retained much higher percentages of stock than any other executives in any other company.
Yea sounds like a real scam to me. What kind of nonsense is this?
Now we hear the geologist's body has been found.
There is not one single bit of evidence to show there is something wrong on Bre-X's part, or that there is not a minimum of 70.95 million ounces of gold, and yet absolute turmoil has been created.
This thread in a lot of ways, not all ways, seems devoted to tearing Bre-x apart.
Maybe Bre-X's lawsuits should start right here on the Bre-X thread.
From: mikesloan Mar 24 1997
I signed up for this service (http://www.newsalert.com) specifically so I could read this article. Needless to say, I want to hear what Bre-X has to say. It's not good journalistic practice not to try to get a reply from the person or entity being accuseed of mal- or misfeasance, as I think Bre-X is here.
You now know what I know. I don't know how reliable the source is, because the article won't identify it, which is why I am doing nothing until I hear further developments from Bre-X and/or Freeport.
So, come on, Freeport, step up and be counted. Let's have a public statement saying the deposit is worthless if that's what you think. I double-dog dare you to
CANCEL THE DEAL!!!
Bigdude I think you contributed to the panic and you should go back and read your following posts: 7463 7465 7474 7494 7500 7505 I also believe Graham Thorley and William Smith contributed to the panic and I hope Bre-X sues the both of you
If you don't believe me go back and read Friday's postings. Thank goodness there were a few sane voices around otherwise who knows what would have happened
From: mikesloan Mar 26 1997
I don't believe for a second that Bre-x is involved in any fraud.
What about all the comments that it has been drilled like swiss cheese?
What did Kilborn say yesterday? I understand someone from their company was quoted in a newspaper but not sure if it was a paper or a newswire. They are connected with SNC Lavalin a giant engineering firm
I still believe the problem is that Bre-X found too much gold and big powerful interests want it bad
I have no idea what is going on but the Indonesians from what I understand wanted to get this out of the way before the coming elections on May 29 I believe...
This is a GIANT SITUATION here.
Let's all be calm.
From: mikesloan Mar 29 1997
Finally light at the end of the tunnel : Put a muzzle on Bill Jackson...
Bre-X has discovered the gold motherlode of this century and a significant portion of the other jr resource stocks have been benefiting bigtime because of the Busang find. The problem is that Bre-X has found too much gold, not less, like people like Mr Jackson keep suggesting, otherwise why does just about every other major mining company in the world want to get involved with Bre-X. The geologist, Mike de Guzman, who co-discovered the mine, died last week and unfortunately the timing of his tragic death is being exploited to try and take control of Bre-X.
It is quite simple really what is going on and the most important thing that shareholders in other junior resource based companies could do for all of us investors is to demand that the entire mining community start acting with much higher levels of integrity. The gold is there and eventually this will all come out and if Bre-X goes down in the process it will take years for the junior resource sector to recover from this ugly situation...
I'll finish by reminding everyone of Rev Neilmoiler (sp) who said, first they came and took away the analysts but I wasn't one of them so I did nothing, then they came and took away the brokers but I wasn't one of them so I did nothing, then they came to take me away, but there was no one left to help me, so they took me away as well.
To: d.clarke (469 )
From: mikesloan
You are wasting your and everyone else's time. Mw Walsh was subjected to fraud just like half the world was. Many many people from all walks of life were conned including most of the top people in the investment/mining community. There but for the grace of God went all the rest of them. Mr Walsh is competent and brilliant and is ferreting out the truth instead of running around in a circle like a chicken with it's head cut off like you are doing.
We are all feeling this pain but let's do something constructive instead of trying to get revenge against people who had nothing to do with the fraud.
From: mikesloan Apr 29 1997
Why no email address for you? What are you afraid of? People finding out who you really are. Just curious that's all no heavy scene here but does raise a red flag for me.
IMHO
From: mikesloan Apr 29 1997
When all the gold is discovered at Busang it will exceed most people's wildest expectations
IMHO
From: mikesloan May 1 1997
Well no need just relax. The Bre-X Board of Directors are a class act and not involved in any scam. There is a shaker going on, the gold is there, and the price will rebound maybe not immediately but slowly and surely over the next while.
IMHO
From: mikesloan May 3 1997
This is about the only public opportunity there is to ferret out the truth. You obviously are very new to this scene and don't give me the impression that you have any awareness of the history of this situation. The last place for the truth I'm sad to say is the media in Canada, at least most of the media. The journalists are overworked, have no time to research, write articles on third hand information, quite frankly have little or no expertise in geology, and have a herd mentality just like any other group in society whether it be accountants, lawyers, or people in the investment community.
imo
From: mikesloan May 21 1997
What do you think Kilborn was hired to do? Wash dishes for Bre-X!!!
Get a grip man you obviously have no idea about Bre-X's operation. Most of us lost money here but let's start taking some responsibility for our actions and stop trying to blame someone else for our own mistakes.
Bre-X's Calgary management or staff did nothing wrong imo.
From: mikesloan May 21 1997
Let's make one thing very clear. The people in Calgary raised the money, they hired Mr Felderhof to run the Indonesian operation for them and they hired Kilborn to confirm what Felderhof's team in Indonesia had discovered to protect the shareholders. The Clagary office did their job imo. Who knows what the rest did?
From: mikesloan May 22 1997
Message for Michael de Guzman's brother
Shut your mouth jerkface!!!!!
From: mikesloan May 23 1997
Your response is precisely my concern. Let's wait and see who the guilty parties are first before passing judgement.
Even the PDAC was taken it to the point of making Felderhof Mining Man of the Year.
I know that most mining scams are usually perpetuated by the owners. This is an unprecedented situation however according to the PDAC. Please let's not hang innocent peole before all the facts are known.
From: mikesloan May 23 1997
This is unprecedented you are absolutely correct IMO.
I honestly believe that Bre-X management in Calgary took all the appropriate precautions that any executive would take in their situation. They hired a world famous geologist to operate the geological end of things, they hired Kilborn Pacific Engineering to check his work, they abided by all the rules and regulations of the regulators and exchanges, they raised the money to fund the exploration project, they outfoxed that scumbag Munk. What else could they do?
From: mikesloan May 24 1997
Come on Alan enough people have been hurt by this already don't you think? If you became aware of a huge mistake, and if you were a decent person, would you not want to give back an award that was given to you based on incorrect information?
From: mikesloan May 23 1997
Here we go - investors looking for another scapegoat. What was Kilborn Engineering Pacific hired for - to do housecleaning!!!!! Please give me a break folks the people in the Calgary office did everything they could have done. It is about time we started going after the real culprits here instead of the people who did their job.
From: mikesloan May 26 1997
Are you retarded or what? We have a justice system to deal with fraud. I prefer to wait until I hear the FACTS. Everyone is upset but suggesting violence is totally irresponsible and I would suggest you shut your mouth until you know what happened and who the guilty parties are.
From: mikesloan Jun 4 1997
What makes you think Walsh was over in Indonesia a lot? And why strange, no one had heard of Loa Duri until the article in the WSJ after the Interim Report of Strathcona's was delivered to Bre-X on May 5. And yes they have the world's top investigators. I think Austin Powers is heading up the investigation.
From: mikesloan Jun 8 1997
What is that old adage about computers? Gargbage in = garbage out.
What Indonesian laws have been broken by Bre-X that you know for a FACT? (not heresay from someone who was trying to grab the property or from someone who had been bribed)
As far as Felderhof is concerned there is nothing in his background, nor from what I understand, in any other Bre-X employee's background in Indonesia to suggest that they would be involved in some gigantic fraud like this. As a matter of fact Felderhof was quite competent as a geologist, having been involved in discovering a mine a level in geology, I've been told by reliable geologists in the field, to which very few geologists ever attain.
Also what do you mean by " but de Guzman does appear to have been trading in gold"? Where is that coming from?
From: mikesloan Jun 12 1997
So some insurance policies were bought. Do any of you remember the circumstances at that time? I don't think you do. We are all frustrated, me included BTW, with this situation but I personally don't like mob rule which is what is going on here on this thread imo. And if people are not careful you might create another Guy Paul Morin situation here with your thirst for blood. No wonder no one at Bre-X would would give this thread the time of day.
mikesloan on jul 9 1997 4:33pm
I hear through an impeccable source that the cameraman, one Mark David Fuller, involved in the altercation with Brett Walsh, son of Bre-X CEO David Walsh, on May 6, 1997, has himself been charged with assault against Brett Walsh in Calgary Alberta court yesterday in connection with this incident. Let's hope this makes the front page.
From: mikesloan Jul 11 1997
Good post. FWIW I'm positive no one involved in the Calgary office was involved in any fraud and they were very competent in their domain which was raising money for the exploration. Unfortunately the people involved in runing the Indonesian end of things let them, as well as us investors, down, big time.
Have you had any direct contact with Bre-X recently? I think they would appreciate hearing from you. |
