Ted, nothing you said to Hmaly disproves the notion that Germany is speaking with forked tongue. So which is it: Germany is for peace, or Germany wants to give America the finger? I think it's obvious that Germany is more for the latter than the former. You want to blame Bush for that?
Fine, but don't pretend that Germany is such a big believer in peace. They only do so because it's politically advantageous for them to. It takes precedence over the saving of innocent lives, which makes Germany no better morally than America.
Tench, please look at this more openly.....Germany has believed for a long time...before 9/11...that the biggest danger to them and the western world is al Qaeda. They have a sizeable Muslim population with a number of sleepers mixed in. They warned us something bad was about to happen to the US two weeks before 9/11. They have expressed their concerns re al Qaeda repeatedly to the US to no avail.
Then last summer Bush began beating the Iraqi drums. The Germans are anything but stupid people. Not only did we not consult with Germany before the drum beating but Bush expected them to along with his case in spite of the fact that they have never felt that Iraq was nearly the threat that al Qaeda is. Things went from bad to worse. The more they didn't concede the more difficult Bush got until eventually, Bush and company got downright abusive.
So now, Germany has two things going on.......it wants to contain Iraq and go after al Qaeda. At the same time, its asserting its independence from American domination.
And unfortunately, we are coming off looking like the bad guy. Is that clearer to you?
<They are telling the US you may be a superpower but we are not under your thumb and will not jump to your demands.>
OK, that's fine by me as well. I'll give it as much consideration as it's worth. Frankly, I think the EU is facing irrelevancy, which is why France and Germany are trying to act all in-your-face.
I assuming you are saying that out of pique because only a fool would say the EU is facing irrelevancy......and I know you are not a fool. ;~))
In fact, the EU is in the ascendent.
If you want to side with France and Germany, I'd prefer it if you sided with them because of the issue of peace, and not because of the EU's fantasy to become a superpower itself. Just remember that in this unfortunate game, war and peace are being used as political tokens, just like the innocent civilians whose lives are at stake.
Oh, please, you think I am siding with them because I want the EU to be a superpower?!! I am very sorry if I gave you or anyone else that impression. My side is with the US; however, I don't agree with Bush's stance nor do I think he's doing what's best for this nation. IN addition,I agree with Europe's take on who the real problem is. And I don't want us to lose Europe as an ally........they are invaluable.
I think you agree, don't you?
Oh, and like I said before, I think we'll save more lives and more money if we strike Iraq and take care of the problem that way. Sure, war is hell, but Iraq is already a hell house right now for its citizens.
You're probably right but in this case, I think there is another way to skin the cat.
ted
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