<<God quite often uses rulers to avenge evil.>>
God commands genocide 400 years after the alleged evil.
That is morally indefensible. Is genocide contrary to or compatible with our nature?
<<And that is God Himself commanding a particular group of people to do a particular thing.>>
In Numbers 31 Moses sends troops to exterminate the Midianites (because some of the Israelites are attracted to their women and this may lead to idolatry). The troops disobey Moses by taking the women and children prisoner. So Moses orders the women and children prisoners killed.
Would you say Moses' killing of women and children prisoners is contrary to or compatible with our nature?
It is morally indefensible.
<<It is clearly unreasonable for me to think I have freedom by the Scriptures to murder the Amalekites or Midianites. (sigh)>>
You sigh so often, i'm starting to think you're Al Gore.
And this is a disingenuous argument because when i present you with a direct command in Deuteronomy to kill idolaters, you tell me it doesn't apply to you.
So why are we talking about anything in the Old Testament?
<<The Deut. text was indeed the law for the pre-Christian Hebrew theocracy>>
So isn't it still law for Jews? Aren't their scriptures like the Muslim scripture in that they command infidels to be killed?
<<Had God Himself given me, not the Hebrews, but me, a command to kill idolaters, then I would be bound to do it.>>
Would you do it?
Wouldn't Abraham have been a better man had he refused to bind his son for slaughter?
Is there no absolute right and wrong for the religious?
<<that is why you do not see any worldwide Christian movement to kill anyone, as you do with Islam>>
This is a ridiculous argument. History is replete with worldwide Christian movements to kill and enslave people.
<<Hah! You are being dishonest. You claimed it wasn't even mentioned in Exodus and that the thing was unscrupulously put in Deuteronomy to justify blood lust. You obviously were completely ignorant of the fact that it was indeed mentioned in Exodus.>>
Not dishonest. I was working from memory and clearly had exaggerated the case.
But the point (though off point) stands.
The Exodus Amalek story was about faith and fidelity. The Israelites murmured against God and "then came Amalek." Moses finds that Joshua does well in battle when he holds his staff high, but not well when he doesn't. God says he will deal with Amalek. The Israelites briefly learn not to doubt God.
In Deuteronomy we hear that Amalek had ambushed the Israelites and attacked the weak stragglers. For this crime God orders the Israelites to exterminate the seed of Amalek for all time.
They are very different stories. And the Deuteronomy story nicely rationalizes the facts on the ground at the time of its discovery in a way that Exodus does not.
<<God Himself was interested in destroying Amalek and did it not because it was written in a book, but because that is simply what he wanted to do.>>
Yes i understand that for you right and wrong are the arbitrary will of a capricious and vindictive God having nothing to do whatsoever with our own nature.
So with this, more or less, being your point of view, what is your evidence that God is good and not contrary to our nature?
Steve |
