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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group

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To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (83520)3/19/2003 12:32:48 PM
From: Neocon  Read Replies (2) of 281500
 
The Eastern bloc countries had a hand in their own liberation, to be sure, but even they believe that we were primarily responsible for liberating them, which is why they are taking Bush's side in the present crisis. Maybe Vaclac Havel and Lech Walesa know something you don't.
I mention the Eastern bloc countries as examples of places recently tyrannized that, with the help of the United States, rapidly established democratic institutions. It is irrelevant whether we occupied them or not.

Here is a list of the members of the British Commonwealth. How many are democratic?

Antigua and Barbuda
Australia

Bangladesh
Barbados

Belize
Botswana

Brunei Darussalam
Cameroon

Canada
Cyprus

Dominica
Fiji Islands

Ghana
Grenada

Guyana
India

Jamaica
Kenya

Kiribati
Lesotho

Malawi
Malaysia

Maldives
Malta

Mauritius
Mozambique

Namibia
Nauru

New Zealand
Nigeria

Pakistan
Papua New Guinea

Samoa
Seychelles

Sierra Leone
Singapore

Solomon Islands
South Africa

Sri Lanka
St Kitts and Nevis

St Lucia
St Vincent and the Grenadines

Swaziland
The Bahamas

The Gambia
Tonga

Trinidad and Tobago
Tuvalu

Uganda
United Kingdom

United Republic of Tanzania
Vanuatu

Zambia
Zimbabwe


thecommonwealth.org

Using the Freedom House ratings, which also evaluate press freedom and other civil liberties, and eliminating the UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand from the list, and using 2000 as a benchmark year, we find:

56% are rated "Free"; 30% are rated "Partially Free"; and 14% are rated "Not free".

freedomhouse.org

As I have demonstrated that your estimates of "for every good thing" there are "10 bad" are unreliable, to say the least, I will not get into the question of how many tyrants we are responsible for. I will come back with some information of Chile, a bit later, though. In any event, I did not adduce Pinochet and Franco as instances of "nation building", but as instances where authoritarian regimes led pretty easily to a transition to democracy.

Whether someone is capable of self- government or not does not depend on whether he is Asian or African, but on the degree of social development that there is at a given time. Sometimes, in order to establish stability enough to allow for institutional growth and economic development, imperialism has not been a bad thing. To note that does not make me an imperialist any more than my noting that a lot of good people were Marxists makes me a socialist.
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