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Politics : Formerly About Applied Materials
AMAT 265.39+4.2%3:59 PM EST

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To: zonder who wrote (70366)5/16/2003 11:05:58 AM
From: Sun Tzu  Read Replies (1) of 70976
 
> Seljuks were Turks, of course.

Of course. We are not in dispute of the facts. But more than anything, the Seljuk were immigrants into the plateau of Iran. Their capitals remained in Iran. And they became the biggest patrons of Persian poetry and arts.

It's been a few years since when I delved into the study of rise of Turkish tribes inside the Anatolia. So my memory is a bit fuzzy. But from what I remember, Turkey did not become Turkish for quite some time after the Seljuk. Nor did the Seljuk make a big effort to settle inside the Anatolia; they simply annexed that land to their kingdom. Eventually, the Anatolia broke free but they were still not "Turks". Again, I am speaking from memory, so the dates may be off but I am relatively confident of the facts. Some time in the 1300s, one of the Turkic nomadic tribes began to rise in power and eventually they founded the Ottoman Empire. That was the beginning of Anatolia becoming "Turkisized" (if that can be considered a word). Once the empire matured and felt secure enough, many other cultures were incorporated in the society. The dominant theme however remained emphasis on the Turkish existence.

In contrast, Turkish monarchs in Iran such as the Seljuk, Ghaznavis, the Safavids, the Afshar, etc always ruled within a Persian context.

The irony here is that the Turkish kings of Iran supported and expanded the Persian culture in the society at large, even as they kept Turkish the language of court to varying extents. But in Turkey the culture that was emphasized and expanded in the society was Turkish, even as the kings often emphasized Persian in their courts.

To see this at work, you need to look at the interaction of the Safavids in Iran and the Ottomans of the same era in Turkey. They were both of Turkish blood (though I think the Safavids were of purer Turkish blood). It is a very interesting interaction.

BTW, Azaris are not as Turkish as you may think. The speak the language, but culturally and ethnically they are very different. Their adoption of Turkish language and cultural aspects did not happen en-masse till the rise of Safavids in Iran. The Safavids were Turkish tribe who had profound effect on modern day Iran. Their two major effects was the conversion of Azaris into "Turks" and the conversion of Iranians into Shia.
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