Yes, and for some time now, there have been conservatives talking in private or in books about restricting the freedom of speech and suggesting that we need to take more aggressive action against nations that we may think are dangerous or don't conform to our way of thinking.
"Restricting freedom of speech" is not very specific, but if your talking about restricting flag burning, or removing government funding for Mapplethorpe exhibit, then I would say none of those things can reasonably be interpreted as signs of an impending Nazi like regime or even signs of a desire for something like that by the right wing of the Republican party.
For nearly a year and half since 9/11, people were criticized for disputing the president's decisions. If you
dared to criticize the president himself, then attempts were made to severely censor the party or parties who were responsible......see Dixie Chicks as a recent example.
Another example.....at one point last fall, FOX or another conservative outlet complained that the Seattle area was not flying enough American flags. How they came to this conclusion....it certainly had to be anecdotal...is beyond me but the message was very clear. Not enough flags means you are not patriotic enough. Now how do you think that differs from other nations with more restricted freedoms? There were not 'examples' made of Seattle residents by taking them out and shooting them but where was the freedom of choice to fly a flag or not to fly a flag? When does public coercion become dictatorial and threatening? In my lifetime, I have never heard a city condemned for not flying enough flags.
I recently read excerpts from a book written by a conservative.....I don't remember the title nor the author.....but he complained that people were taking too much advantage of free speech and that our right to demonstrate or speak out against the gov't should be curtailed. I become very uncomfortable when people suggest our freedoms should be curtailed especially when it comes from the right.
As for invading countries because of a perceived danger from them, that is nothing new, and isn't particularly associated with the Nazis, countries with all different types of government all over the world have invaded other countries to root out what they saw as dangerous, or beyond that even just to conquer (which we have not been doing). Was the British empire Nazi like? Where the American presidents during the Indian wars, the Mexican American war, the Spanish American war ect. like Hitler?
Re. your comments above, I don't agree with people who burn the flag but I defend their right to do so. When you start restricting people's behaviors because they offend you where do you stop? The guy cracking his knuckles annoys me.....is it right to make him stop doing it in public?
Again, only an idiot would expose his views like Hitler did. Since then, we have learned to keep those views hidden.
The fact that something might be hidden if it does exist is not evidence that it does in fact exist.
All I am suggesting that people have hidden agendas and because its become politically incorrect to say certain things in public, they are very careful to keep those things from the public eye.
I have never once said or suggested that conservatives were serial killers.
Just that they where like Hitler.
I have never said they were like Hitler; however, I do think that some of his beliefs dovetail with those of most conservatives. I certainly don't think most conservatives want to burn Jews in ovens but I do believe that many conservatives have strong nationalistic feelings much like Hitler. Hitler believed to protect Germany it may be necessary to be the aggressor......apparently many conservatives believe the same thing. Do you disagree?
Remember, Hitler was seriously fukked up but conservative values are what shaped him and there can't help but be similarities between Hitler and all conservatives just as their our similarities between me and the Greens but you would never see me spraying graffiti on the side of an oil tanker.
I think a sense of proportion would help you.
You say that only because you are quick to make the leap that I am calling Bush another Hitler. Maybe its you who should be concerned with proportion.
BTW - Can you name any specific conservative Republicans that you think are like Hitler?
Jerry Falwell and other far right, fundamentalist conservatives.
Not all presidents dealt with Saddam types in the way they did under the Reagan administration.
Bill Clinton dealt with North Korea's brutal regime, Nixon recognized China and expanded trade and diplomatic contacts,
Under Reagan/Bush we supplied WMD to Saddam. Thats the kind of cooperation about which I am talking. I think its the height of hypocrisy to claim you are good and democratic, and then for years, support an evil dictator like Saddam........and then, even later claim its necessary to take him out.
In WWII we were allied with Stalin.
It was an alliance due to desperation and the lesser of two evils. The scenario is not the same at all......the free world then was in danger of being expunged.......and that wasn't conservative paranoia, that was reality.
Every post war president has at least dealt with murderous thugs and tyrants, if not ones with an army and WMD program as large as Saddam's was. And even if its was wrong (either in a practical or a moral sense) it hardly makes one like Hitler.
Bush and the supporters behind him......the Perles, Wolfowitz, etc......see a more aggressive role for the US. Typically, aggressors tend to be bullies like Hitler.......they prey on weaker nations. That's why people see analogies between Bush's and Hitler's behavior.
I don't necessarily believe Bush is a bully but I think all Americans should be concerned that this president is so quick to invade another nation. Already we have had two wars in two years. People are concerned and have a right to be. I wonder why there are not more conservatives who are concerned.
Was FDR like Stalin because he allied with Stalin? Of course not.
The alliance between FDR and Stalin wasn't hidden......it was out there for all to see. The consorting between the Reagan/Bush administrations and Saddam was much more behind the scenes. To say the two scenarios are analogous is ridiculous.
Again a sense of proportion is called for. Few people should be called Hitler like, not only because it is unfair to them but because it make light of what Hitler did. Also because if every one is "like Hitler" then when a real Hitler type comes along the phrase will have lost some of its power.
Instead of condemning people for implying Bush is Hitler like, why not try to figure out why they are saying it? We were told repeatedly that Iraq was a threat to the US because it had WMD and links to al Qaeda. At that time, there was very little concern for the "poor, enslaved Iraqis". Six months later there is no WMD nor links to al Qaeda. Why are you not asking questions instead of being so concerned with negative comments re Bush? I would hope that we are Americans first, and liberals, conservatives, Dems and Reps. second.
Say Bush worked for a private corporation and told his boss that the corporation of Iraq needed to be eliminated because it was a danger to his corp. and he needed $75 billion to do the job, a sum that would put the corp. into debt. And let's say he does this job of elimination ahead of schedule; however, it turns out the estimate was a little light.....maybe seriously light, and btw it doesn't look like the threat was really all that; that, in fact, there was no real danger at all to his corp.
How long do you think it would be before the corp. fired Mr. Bush?
And people like D.Ray think this is all good! I don't get it......how can people allowed themselves to be so conned?
Don't you think that by the time they demonstrate what they are that that might be too late?
No. For any number of reasons. First of all I don't think that any of the people you are accusing are vaguely Hitler like. Secondly you can oppose them without calling them Hitler. Also calling them like Hitler doesn't really help. If they are dangerous, wildly exaggerating the danger is as likely to make people think you're a fruitcake as it is to alert them of the danger.
That's why I am careful not to call him another Hitler. However, I don't ignore people who are a bit extreme in their presentation......sometimes they are forced into it because people are not listening to them and sometimes, they see things that other people don't see until its too late.
ted |
