The New Neoconservative Political Agenda
Thursday, May 08, 2003
This is a partial transcript of The Big Story With John Gibson, May 7, 2003, that has been edited for clarity. Click here to order the complete transcript.
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DAVID ASMAN, HOST: The neoconservative thinkers advising President Bush to go into Iraq are enjoying their day in the sun. So what's next in the neocon agenda, both internationally and in terms of domestic policy?
Michael Joyce is president of Americans for Community and Faith-Centered Enterprise, and he joins me now from Phoenix. Mike, good to see you. Thanks for coming in.
MICHAEL JOYCE, NEOCONSERVATIVE ACTIVIST: Good to see you, David. Thank you.
ASMAN: Paul Wolfowitz, William Kristol, all the others who essentially got what they wanted — or the president did what they had been advising him to do — what's their agenda now internationally, now that Saddam Hussein is gone?
JOYCE: Well, I think to establish democratization in the Middle East is of huge importance strategically, not only for the United States, but for our allies as well. And it is a formidable challenge, which will require lots of effort and time and resources and a military presence.
ASMAN: And it starts in Iraq. If Iraq does not succeed, does the political capital that these guys — Paul Wolfowitz and Donald Rumsfeld — have accumulated, does that wither away if Iraq turns into a bigger mess than it is?
JOYCE: I think, obviously, the stakes are large. But it is an effort that's absolutely necessary and has to be taken with the greatest seriousness and willingness to commit to a long-term project, which I think will be required.
ASMAN: But, specifically, Mike, the bottom line is that there are a lot of elements that might not all come together neatly in Iraq, and it might become a bigger mess than what it is now portrayed as being. Of course, the media focuses on the bad stuff a lot. But if that happens and if Wolfowitz and Kristol and the others say, “Gee, we thought it was going to work out. It didn't,” then what happens to President Bush? Does he start taking advice from his other ear?
JOYCE: Well, the big mess that you described would most certainly occur if we were to have an exit strategy. This has been the sad history of Iraq ever since the breakup of the Ottoman Empire after the First World War. The British got out on the cheap… and set a standard for tyranny, which has lasted right up to the end of Saddam Hussein. So, a recipe for real disaster would be to leave. The challenge of democratizing the region, of holding up the standard for the Iraqi people — which would permit rule of law and representative self-government — is one that we're not going to turn away from…
The president himself at West Point, don't forget, said that we have no empire to export. We have no utopia to establish. So, I think he does not have a utopian idea that this is going to be swift or easy. But I think we're in for the long haul.
ASMAN: Well, no matter who he takes advice from, the one thing that he wants to have the world know about him and believe is that when he says he is going to do something, he does it, whether it is to get the Taliban out of Afghanistan or Saddam out of Iraq. Do you think that word that is important enough for him to believe so he will stick it through, no matter who's right and who's wrong?
JOYCE: I think so. I think he's made a pledge to the Iraqi people. He does not intend to abandon them, but rather to expand their opportunities.
ASMAN: We have got to leave it at that, Mike. I wanted to talk about domestic agenda, but we've run out of time. Michael Joyce, great to see you. Thanks very much. Thanks for coming in.
JOYCE: Great to see you, David. Thank you.
ASMAN: Appreciate it.
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