"Oh really? You "believe", hm?"
Yes, that us correct. I do not see where he has alleged any necessary design on the Papacy as an "Ultimate" goal of the Masonic order.
"You "believe" things without sufficient understanding, and your credibility suffers as a result."
I see you would like to switch the discussion into the trading of personal attacks, which seems to be your stock in trade. However, you would do everyone a huge favour if you would forego the defensive and smarmy attitude and stay with the facts.
"Although it seems highly unlikely to me at this point, I have not said anything that could possibly make you get the above impression. Can you say where you got this idea from? Unless, of course, it is another of your "beliefs"."
I got that idea from your "ridiculous" comment which demonstrated a scoffing attitude toward the allegation that freemasonry seeks to gain influence with and within the Catholic Church.
And why does it seem "highly unlikely" to you (that "Freemasonry could have ANY goal related to the destruction of Catholicism by any means")? Did you think Pope Leo (and all the others who attacked Freemasonry as their greatest enemy) were simply suffering from delusions? On what basis do you think it so "highly unlikely" that there were grounds for their beliefs? Or, at the very least--that such beliefs deserve no more than smug dismissal without any reasons given?
From the Encyclical of 1884.
ewtn.com
"At this period, however, the partisans of evil seems to be combining together, and to be struggling with united vehemence, led on or assisted by that strongly organized and widespread association called the Freemasons. No longer making any secret of their purposes, they are now boldly rising up against God Himself. They are planning the destruction of holy Church publicly and openly, and this with the set purpose of utterly despoiling the nations of Christendom"
"In consequence, the sect of Freemasons grew with a rapidity beyond conception in the course of a century and a half, until it came to be able, by means of fraud or of audacity, to gain such entrance into every rank of the State as to seem to be almost its ruling power."
"that which is their ultimate purpose forces itself into view—namely, the utter overthrow of that whole religious and political order of the world which the Christian teaching has produced, and the substitution of a new state of things in accordance with their ideas, of which the foundations and laws shall be drawn from mere naturalism."
"they declare to the people and contend that Church and State ought to be altogether disunited. By this means they reject from the laws and from the commonwealth the wholesome influence of the Catholic religion; and they consequently imagine that States ought to be constituted without any regard for the laws and precepts of the Church."
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And you think the Papal quotes above suggest an "unlikelihood" that Freemasonry could possibly have designs against the power and influence of the Catholic Church. You seem to have an immense capacity for self deception.
"you want to take the side opposite to a certain person. Myself, in this case."
LOL! I think it best for you to stick to the public discussion, and leave the paranoic fabrications for your private moments!
"There are Freemasons in every profession. Some may be in the Church business as well. I bet far less in percentage than those in business and political circles. That hardly proves a conspiracy. Get over it."
Again, you pretend to know more about the matter than the various Popes who have spoken adamantly on the matter! Your cockiness is rather amusing! <g> |
