Hawkmoon
>>And the next time you ponder the concept of Zionism (Jewish nationalism) as a threat, spend a bit of time contemplating exactly how such a belief is a larger threat than Pan-Arabism (of which the Baathist party subscribed)..<<
I’ve never consider Zionism a threat , unless their goal was to expand beyond the lands they were on after the Balfour declaration :
mideastweb.org
Unless they seized control of water assets and distributed them with a ratio of five to one in favour of their people.
Unless they armed themselves with massive nuclear capability and made well known their intention to use them in the event of a conflict.
Unless they found themselves in influential governmental and/or military and/or other positions in the West that enabled them to carry out these objectives to the detriment of World Peace.
But Nadine has explained quite clearly,not all Zionists carry the same position on Israel.We have :
Zionist who would follow the Balfour declaration – I’ll call these “ Traditional Zionists “. T Zionists.
Zionists who wish for a negotiated settlement on land claims - “ Moderate Zionists “. M Zionists
Zionists who believe in a Greater Israel at all costs – “ Greater Israel Zionists “. G.I. Zionists
So I believe it is the G.I. Zionists that are creating much of the problems for you and I and the others.
I will reference to these G.I. Zionists in the future for clarity.
Thank You Nadine, and for the rest of your post that I will study in the Future.
>>The Jews merely wanted to carve out a small homeland so they had a place to go when persecuted in Europe and elsewhere.. <<
They had a choice of places to go,( Uganda )but chose Palistine,knowing full well that they would not be welcomed there,but as I have stated , I support their existence as the Definitive Jewish State, within the 1967 boarders,with a separate state for the Palestinians to also live their lives without persecution, which by the way,makes me a Zionist by historical definition.
>>Whereas, the Pan-Arabists wish to unite every Arab nation in the region, voluntarily, or through coercion, if necessary.. But it's ok to be an Arabist.. <<
There seems to a lot of that united stuff going around these years.The Asians coming together after the currency crises.The European Union coming together for common currency and free trade zones,and now murmurs of military cooperation of some sort.
Seems only America, under Bush,wants to go it alone these days.The Arabists have their religion, although fractured, in a sense,that attaches those common bonds and helps them to fend off what THEY perceive as a threat.That would be America’s ,under Bush,postion to wield unchallenged power in the region,even if the stated goal is Democracy .
Nothing new here Hawk.The enemy of my enemy is my friend,and all that.
Bush is a uniting force , for his enemies.<GG>
>>>But to be a Zionist, in the minds of most liberals, is comparable to calling oneself an imperialist.<<
That’s a stretch and a half.The Liberals have been supportive of Jewish Nationalism, but not to the extent that the current administration finds itself,and now finds itself crawdadding ,to give the appearance of some modicum of neutrality in the hopes of being perceived as an “ Honest Broker “. I don’t think the Arabists will forget quickly what has transpired in the past couple of years,but there is hope they will understand the need to move forward,regardless of the mistakes of the past.
>>Nasser was a Pan-Arabist.. Hussein considered himself a Pan-Arabist, with delusions of being the next Saladin.. The Saudis, or at least their Wahhabist elements, are Arabists.. seeking to unite all muslims under their religious creed..<<
See above…nothing new under the sun here.,but the question might be asked,of what threat this unity would become a problem for you or I,if we had no imperial interest in the area?
>>But none of these concepts received nearly a fraction of the attention of the Zionist movement..<<
I’m not sure what movement you are talking about ,but if it was the original one , then it would be quite ordinary for the West to have more dealings with this than what was evolving in the ME with the Arabs, thus all the attention,Russia notwithstanding.Much of the other attention comes form the fact that Judaism is closely linked to Christianity,thus the interest is much greater in Christian denominated countries.
>>Hawk@thingsthatmakeyougohmmmm... <<
Hope that helps cure you from your Hmmmm..ing..<GGG> |
