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Pastimes : Ask God
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To: Stan who wrote (36410)1/15/2004 12:11:30 AM
From: Berry Picker  Read Replies (2) of 39621
 
Stan - I decided to try a different approach.

Let ne try to take what either of us believe out of the lime light
for a second and see if you can see how what is happening
between us happened between myself and Alan.

This will not work if you are a Universalist however as you
will side with Alan - I just know it :-)

I do not know if you read some of the posts between Alan
and myself this weekend.

Alan believes at absolutely all men will be saved.

He goes so far as to believe that even those who commit what
is called the unforgivable sin will also be saved.

How you may ask... 2 ways as far as I can tell.

Jesus said neither in the present age or the age to come.

1. So they have the guy forgiven in a third age - he simply suffers
unforgiveness for both that age and the one that follows but not ALL ages.

2. They make the passage speak about the sin not the one committing it.
So that those who commit it are not forgiven on earth -
those who will commit it in the next age will also not be forgiven on earth.

I believe Alan is of the first variety.

What they do is utterly disrupt the nature of what Jesus said
and IMPOSE upon it their preconceived notions of
Universal redemption and their sophisticated Age theories.

All of which come from outside scripture to be imposed upon it.

Here is what Alan considers to be a key rebuttal verse:

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;
even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came
upon all men unto justification of life.

The logic goes like this

"Did absolutely every soul that should ever be born die in Adam"?

Answer - YES

Therefore absolutely every soul that should ever be born shall be made alive in Christ.

Alan maintains anyone who does not follow this logic does so because
they are purposely "avoiding the exact wording of the verse"

I have attempted to explain the proper way of seeing the verse.

He accuses me of using a different meaning for "all" in the first half
of the verse that the meaning that I apply to the second half.

I have tried to show him that is not true and
that he is taking the verse out of context separated
from the rest of what was said.

but as you may have guessed...

He can't hear me

Concerning the verse you are using -
it is about the body before physical death not after as you are doing.

but as you may have guessed...

I highly doubt you will hear me

Brian
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