Hi hmaly, RE: "what about the rest of the problems with the middle and high school systems, caused by influences other than the teachers. Frankly, if the parents want to see who is primarily to blame, they should look into the mirror, and then look at the politicians and lawyers, then the teachers."
Good point. How do you make parents from a well-off country feel motivated to instill this in their children? Parents from Asian countries instill this in their children because other options are way too bleak. Does the country have to go downhill before pain motivates parents?
In the Bay Area 97% of Asian children have graduated from High School, while that % drops for white families.
RE: "Why do I say that. Look at the difference between our lower schools and colleges. OUr college system is the best in the world, while our middle and high schools rank in the lower half. Why is that?"
Probably because more than 55% of our core science courses are filled with the best scientists from the world. In my upper level grad CS courses, there were more than 75% foreigners I believe. This is how it is in the best schools - they attract top talent. It's also probably why they are the best schools.
RE: "Certainly most of the methods used by college professors are also used the lower schools"
Oh heavens no. Completely different. The lower schools are very poor, while the colleges are excellent.
RE: "if you want to blame the lower schools inability to fire non productive teachers, well, the colleges can't fire them either."
Universities are not geographically specific - they are reputation based. Lower schools are fixed geography.
Some of my friends went on to become professors at research schools - they didn't want to teach at the training schools. There's a difference between a teaching school and a research school. You can't really say there's that distinction in the lower school programs because they are dependent upon geography and whether or not you can afford a million dollar mortgage. The lower school system is based more upon the rich get richer philosophy.
RE: "More and more, the kids in the lower schools hate going to school"
Seriously?
My relative (who is getting a masters in school administration and has done some grade school teaching as part of his training), said students seem angrier in life than what school was like for him. But he's also teaching in a big city, in a not-so-good part of town.
RE: "you can't force learning into their brains, no matter how good the teacher is."
I would ask that person to teach the course for the day. The word teaching is a bit outdated, because it implies passive, one way learning. The new word the wealthy schools are using, is collaboration.
RE: " The main difference between the lower schools and college, is that in college they can have fun"
Hm. Grade school was fun, college was financially stressful.
RE: "a place where they make the choices of all types of classes and who will teach them"
If only 8th grade were like that too...
RE: "if your kid isn't motivated, we all should ask first, what we need to do"
Does a country have to be starving, to be motivated? This country seems to be motivated by pain. Rather than preventive.
I liked your idea about motivating people through fun. Why don't you expand on this idea?
RE: "You can bet that lower school teachers in India, don't have to contend as much with unruly, undisciplined, unmotivated pupils, as our teachers do."
But is undisciplined part of the creativity we have here? One thing my friends from overseas tell me: we are very creative here. They say their rigidly disciplined school system doesn't foster creativity. Maybe that's our trump card.
I've heard from my friends, the teachers in India can be very nasty and even physically abusive. These aren't the good teachers, of course. But the majority seem to take their jobs seriously and their culture is more top-down, so kids are more respectful and learn. On the other hand, my friends from India tell me our creativity that our schools foster is stunning.
RE: " Having problems with racism in your community, well, lets bus the kids all over the county, that will make it better."
I think transporting kids into better schools should be used. Why should a kid be penalized by their family's location?
The issue is schools don't have an effective means to expel the misbehaving students. I continue to be shocked when I hear school systems continue to allow girls to be called extremely offensive names by boys. There were some high school girls that sued a Fremont school system for letting guys put up nasty posters of girls and for calling the girls some pretty offensive names. It made the news, because this lawsuit was considered unusual. It should be considered normal in society for people to have the right to study and treated with respect.
RE: "Having trouble with the lower IQ students keeping up, hey, lets dumb down the class"
I'm against dumbing down classes.
RE: "give them quotas"
Quotas are good, otherwise a person can see an entire industry go downhill due to an inadequate representation of the consumer buyer they represent.
RE: " so now it isn't necessary to learn anymore, just bribe or pester your local politician until Johnny gets the grade you think he deserves; much easier than actually making Johnny do his homework."
One student's parent sued a school for their grade. Creepy.
RE: " And we need to get the lawyers out of classrooms"
Just give teachers the right to expel misbehaving kids but also a reasonable path for kids to bring up their perspective.
Regards,
Amy J |
