Hi Nadine Carroll; Re: "By Carl's logic, that means that Winston Churchill would have been perfectly happy to see the United States destroyed, so long as it helped Britain."
He would not have been "perfectly happy", but he would have undoubtedly preferred a world with Britain victorious and the United States destroyed to one with Britain defeated and the United States unhurt. That's in the nature of patriotism.
Re: "By the logic of reasonable people, it means something rather different."
If you really think that any significant numbers of foreigners want what is best for the United States, as opposed to what is best for their own country (and their own flesh and blood) you're operating in a complete fantasy world.
Bush made exactly this failure when he believed the promises of the Iraqi expatriates. He should have realized that their primary goal was not the furtherance of US power, but instead simply getting rid of Saddam. So of course they told him lies about how US soldiers would be treated there. They truly didn't care much what kind of effect the policy they were promoting would have on the US. They really didn't care much whether the war on terror would be facilitated or set back. They just wanted Saddam out. They also had fantasies of returning as leaders of the new Iraq state.
Similarly, your heart is mostly with Israel, and only a little with the US. If it comes down to choosing between one or the other, you may shed tears for the US, but you will choose the road that (you think) makes Israel secure.
I'm not saying that your attitude is unusual or evil or anything like that. What I'm saying is that your attitude is universal in the human species. It's not just Israel that sees the US as a tool to defeat its enemies. Pakistan and India see us the same way, and so did Winston Churchill in 1941. Of course humans care more about one place than another. It is the essence of patriotism.
Nor am I saying that we should not have helped England in WW2. What I am saying is that when any foreigners come around with any foreign policy advice for the US, we have to understand that their motives are distinct from ours, and adjust accordingly.
-- Carl |
