Hawkmoon, Dr Id and Arun,
Sorry I started this brush or bush fire and then disappeared. Dr. Id stated my position as I meant it. I am not saying that we are the only violent country but that we are there with all the rest of the folks on earth. We have a hard time acknowledging our potential for violence and most of the time it gets played out in sports that we live thru vicariously. For example, the NFL, NHL (most overt violence that I have never understood how it could be tolerated where in other sports there are immediate penalties that occur when a fight or near fight breaks out. In hockey, the refs let it go for awhile unless someone is broken up--jaw, brain, etc.--on the first swing).
Phil Zimbardo was on Aaron Brown's show today and explained clearly what happened in the Stanford Prison Experiment highlighted on this thread earlier by Dr. Id. Under stress, and SECRECY, good boys and girls, under socially approved pressure, regress into sadistic violence. I've mentioned my experience (on this thread or Investor Hub--can't remember right now) working in a Federal Prison for 4 years and how the guards could explode into violent revenge when somebody got away with a relatively minor infraction. (this was a minimum security joint) I was amazed how they relished being sadistic to these dehumanized 'criminals'; some of whom were young college guys who had done some drug stuff or were draft dodgers at the end of the Viet Nam war. Sometimes, by the way, the more educated took more heat from both the guards and the other inmates.
I would hope that the results of the Zimbardo study are read to Bush. I know he doesn't read the papers or watch the news except Fox and I don't think they have interviewed Zimbardo. I know Condi Rice knows about him from her Stanford days and would respect his scientific scholarship. She should brief the President about this tendency of human beings under social pressure and stress as well as orders from above. No question that orders came from above and that the Coalition knew about these abuses for over a year from the Int. Red Cross efforts to communicate them. So "I know every detail" Rumsfeld knew about it, Bremer knew about it and all the Generals knew about the abuse but they didn't want it to get in the way of the plans. Only the pictures got the attention because of fear that Bush would be hurt in his re-election campaign. Anyways, if the administration keeps up this bad apple BS, nothing will change and more abuse will take place at the hands of Americans. I know very clearly that all our "enemies" can be cruel when they dehumanize us as infidels but we have portrayed ourselves as holding to a higher standard and in order to win the hearts and minds for Democracy as Bush says he is wont to do, we have to walk the walk. Finally, it's interesting that Hamil (sp?) has not been available to talk about how he was treated as a captive, which suggests that he was treated pretty well before he escaped. Sorry for my wordiness but I've gotten pretty steamed up watching the news for a couple of hours. razal |
