Nancy Pelosi went out on a limb yesterday and guaranteed that Kerry will be the president of the United States.
M
MR. RUSSERT: You're going to guarantee that this morning?
REP. PELOSI: Well, I'll guarantee you one thing, one guarantee a program: I will guarantee you that John Kerry will be president of the United States.
MEET THE PRESS (Transcript)
msnbc.msn.com
Guests: House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, (D-Calif.), on the Democrats' view of Iraq, former Sen. Bob Dole (R-Kan.), World War II veteran on the WWII Memorial, plus a political roundtable.
Stephen Hayes, Weekly Standard, Author, "The Connection: How al-Qaeda's Collaboration with Saddam Hussein Has Endangered America"; Joe Klein,Time Magazine; Andrea Mitchell, NBC News; Roger Simon, U.S. News & World Report
Moderator/Panelist: Tim Russert - NBC News
This is a rush transcript provided for the information and convenience of the press. Accuracy is not guaranteed. In case of doubt, please check with:
MEET THE PRESS - NBC NEWS
(202) 885-4598, Sundays: (202) 885-4200
Meet the Press (NBC News) - Sunday, May 30, 2004
MR. TIM RUSSERT: Our issues this Sunday: The Democrats turn up the rhetoric against the president:
(Videotape):
FORMER VICE PRES. AL GORE: President Bush's utter incompetence has made the world a far more dangerous place.
(End videotape)
(Videotape):
REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D-CA): I think the time has come to speak very frankly about the lack of leadership in the White House, the lack of judgment.
(End videotape)
MR. RUSSERT: With us, the leader of the House Democrats, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi of California. Then: the dedication of the World War II Memorial:
(Videotape):
PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH: Here in the company of the generation that won the war, I proudly accept the World War II Memorial on behalf of the people of the United States of America.
(End videotape)
MR. RUSSERT: With us: one of the men who helped make it happen, Army second lieutenant turned Republican leader in the Senate turned presidential candidate, Bob Dole. And the very latest on the debate over terrorism warnings, and insights into the Bush-Kerry race for the White House. With us: Stephen Hayes of The Weekly Standard, Joe Klein of Time magazine, Andrea Mitchell of NBC News and Roger Simon of U.S. News & World Report.
But first joining us is the House minority leader, Democratic Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi of California. Welcome to MEET THE PRESS.
REP. PELOSI: Good morning.
MR. RUSSERT: Let me show you and our viewers something that you said on May 20 and give you a chance to talk about it: "Bush is an incompetent leader. In fact, he's not a leader. ...He's a person who has no judgment, no experience and no knowledge of the subjects that he has to decide upon. ...He has on his shoulders the deaths of many more troops..." That's pretty strong.
REP. PELOSI: It is, and I said that with great reluctance and after a long period of time of asking the administration where their plan was. You be the judge. Here we have a situation where we put our young men and women in harm's way. And believe me, I said this for the troops. I said this for the troops, a cry for help for the troops. We put them in harm's way. We should--this was a war of choice that the administration went into, and we should have at least known the ground truth of what we were getting into. We send our troops in and we say that they're going to be greeted with rose petals; instead
it's rocket-propelled grenades. We say this is a country that can easily finance its own reconstruction, and here it is a year later; we're $200 billion in the hole and growing. It'll be approaching a quarter of a trillion dollars.
We did not adequately prepare for the post-Saddam situation in Iraq. General--don't take it from me. General Zinni himself said the level of sacrifice was not matched by the level of planning. And he also said that--and this was very--in the lead-up to the Iraq War--I'll just quote him here: "In the lead-up to the Iraq War and its later conduct, I saw at a minimum true dereliction, negligence and irresponsibility; at worst, lying, incompetence and corruption."
So we're on a course of action that is dangerous to our troops. We did not equip them well. A Department of Defense report said that a quarter of the troops would not have lost their lives or been injured if they were better equipped. This is just absolutely an unacceptable situation. And for over a year, it has existed. And so, as I say, with reluctance, I said I have to--I've been criticizing the administration over and over again. It had to get to who is responsible for this.
MR. RUSSERT: What message does this send to the troops in Iraq when the ranking Democrat in the House of Representatives says that the commander in chief is not a leader, has no judgment, no experience and no knowledge? How does that make the troops feel?
REP. PELOSI: I visited the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. I visited troops in the lead-up to the war, in Turkey and Qatar and all over the world, and I visited them in hospitals in Germany and, of course, in the United States. And I have a responsibility to the troops, that they, when they go into battle--yesterday, for example, this weekend, Memorial weekend, we worship at the shrine of those who gave their lives. We salute our troops for their courage, their patriotism, the sacrifice they're willing to make for our country. They are precious to us. We owe them at least a fair fight when they go into battle for
us. And that means they have to have leadership that knows what's on the ground when they get there, the equipment to make the fight, the intelligence to know who the adversary is.
The administration has now commissioned a report that the DOD, department of Defense, called "Who Is The Adversary?" You be the judge. Is that fair? Is that fair to the troops? So I am doing this for the troops, and I'm willing to take any attack that others may make to say that this isn't the right thing to do to criticize the commander in chief, because the commander in chief is responsible.
MR. RUSSERT: What do you think the people leading the resistance in Iraq or al-Qaeda think when they hear the ranking Democrat in the House say that President Bush has no knowledge, no experience, no judgment?
REP. PELOSI: They know that we are making an assessment of what we have put our troops into. I don't--I think that we have to have a change of leadership. Of course, I would like to see that be John Kerry. I think he has a better approach to this. But I will say this: Maybe the Republicans would like to rethink who is leading the charge for them because this cannot be an acceptable standard, a war of choice. A war of choice. Let's not even go into the lack of basis to go into the war. We go in. We are one team, one fight. We're with our troops all the way. But we owe them more than the lack of
preparation, the lack of equipment, the lack of intelligence, the lack of knowledge. Chalabi--we--or the basis of Chalabi. Is that good judgment that we--up until last Monday, he was on the U.S. payroll, according to press reports...
MR. RUSSERT: You say Republicans rethink--should the president resign?
REP. PELOSI: I'm saying that this leadership has taken us--don't take my words for it. General Hoar last week, May 20, said before the Foreign Relations Committee, "I believe we're absolutely on the brink of failure. We are looking into the abyss." This is a former chairman of the Central Command. This is the head of the Central Command. And then in addition to what General Zinni, who was also the head of the Central Command--there has to be some change in the personnel and the administration. If the president doesn't want to make those changes, then we're just going to have to have a new president
because I believe that we have a chance with a new president to go out there, talk to our allies, bring some ally troops, bring NATO into Iraq. We need more boots on the ground. We can't just have them be U.S. troops risking our lives, U.S. taxpayers paying the bill, U.S. reputation being tainted by what has happened under this administration, for example, in the Abu Ghraib prison.
MR. RUSSERT: Your counterpart in the House on the Republican side, Tom DeLay, said this: "Nancy Pelosi should apologize for her irresponsible, dangerous rhetoric. She apparently is so caught up in partisan hatred for President Bush that her words are putting American lives at risk."
REP. PELOSI: Well, I totally disagree. I made the statement that I did, and I think with great courage, if I might say about myself because I am worried about the troops on the ground in Iraq and wherever our troops serve. I...
MR. RUSSERT: Do you think that President Bush does anything well?
REP. PELOSI: Of course I do.
MR. RUSSERT: What?
REP. PELOSI: And this is not about a partisan--this isn't about politics. It's not even about personalities. It's about policy. It's a situation where the clear and present danger facing our country is terrorism, and we're in this abyss in...
MR. RUSSERT: But where does he show judgment, experience and knowledge?
REP. PELOSI: I think he's a nice person. I think he's true to his religious convictions. It's not about personality. I think we have to get away from that. Just because we think someone is a good person doesn't mean that they are capable. And I have no dislike for President Bush. In fact, I like him. In fact, I waited a year--I waited a year to say this, trying to give them the chance, "Where is the plan? Where is the plan?" Everything that they based their--all of their assumptions going into Iraq have proven faulty. Now, with this transition, it's very, very uncertain as to what's even going to happen in the transition. The president says it's going to be total and complete sovereignty. His own people say it will be sovereignty with limited authority.
MR. RUSSERT: What would you do in Iraq today right now?
REP. PELOSI: What I would do and what I think our country must do in Iraq is take an assessment of where we are. And there has to be a leveling with the American people and with the Congress of the United States as to what is really actually happening there. It's very hard to say what you would do. We need more troops on the ground. General...
MR. RUSSERT: American troops if necessary?
REP. PELOSI: ...Shinseki said this from the start, when you make an appraisal about whether you're going to war, you have to know what you need.
MR. RUSSERT: So you would put more American troops on the ground?
REP. PELOSI: What I'm saying to you, that we need more troops on the ground. I think it would be better if we could get them to be not American, that we could appeal to our European allies, NATO. I agree with Senator Kerry in that respect to come...
MR. RUSSERT: But if they say no, would you put more American troops on the ground?
REP. PELOSI: Clear and present danger facing the United States is terrorism. We have to solidify, we have to stabilize the situation in Iraq. As secretary of state has said, "You break it, you own it." We have a responsibility now in Iraq there. And we have to get more troops on the ground. But when General Shinseki said we need 300,000 troops, Secretary Wolfowitz said "wildly off the mark," because they knew a commitment of 300,000 troops would not be acceptable to the American people. So they went in with false assumptions about rose petals, not rocket-propelled grenades, and we're in this fix that we're in now.
MR. RUSSERT: Well, let's assume all that is wrong. In order to stabilize the situation, NATO has said they have no troops for Iraq, the French, the Germans and Russians saying no.
REP. PELOSI: We have to send...
MR. RUSSERT: Would you send more American troops in order to stabilize the situation?
REP. PELOSI: Yes. And let me just say this, we have--we must, though, internationalize the situation. We cannot take no for an answer. We have to use our diplomacy to the fullest extent to get more international troops on the ground. And we have to truly Iraqitize, internationalize and Iraqitize the situation. Before we can proceed, we have to know what we're dealing with. There's quicksand over there. It's Chalabi one day on the payroll, the next day we're raiding his house. It's Brahimi one day
making the selection of who the new prime minister will be. The next day it's the Iraqi Governing Council putting forth a name and he finds out about it after the fact. What is going on? What is going on? There's serious questions here that jeopardize the safety of our troops and their ability to accomplish their mission and come home safely and soon.
MR. RUSSERT: Vice President Gore on Wednesday, a week after your comments, had this to say. Let's listen:
(Videotape, May 26, 2004):
MR. GORE: We simply cannot afford to further increase the risk to our country with more blunders by this team. Donald Rumsfeld ought to resign immediately as the chief architect of this plan. Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, the intelligence chief Stephen Cambone all ought to resign immediately. Our nation is at risk every single day Rumsfeld remains as secretary of defense. Condoleezza Rice ought to resign immediately. She has badly mishandled the coordination of national security policy. This is a disaster for our country, and they are responsible along with the president and vice president.
(End videotape)
MR. RUSSERT: Do you believe that Secretary Rumsfeld and national security adviser Rice should resign?
REP. PELOSI: I long, weeks ago, called for the resignation of Secretary Rumsfeld, for a number of reasons.
MR. RUSSERT: All right. How about Dr. Rice?
REP. PELOSI: Well, that gets to the president. You're talking about the president's national security adviser. You're talking about the president. We're four, five weeks away--months away, five months away from the election. The public will make its verdict. But I want to tell you, Tim, one of the reasons that I did speak up, I don't think we can wait seven months until the inauguration of a new president for a change in policy. I hope the president will consider replacing the secretary of defense because he really has led this whole operation.
MR. RUSSERT: What did you think of Al Gore's tone?
REP. PELOSI: You see, I didn't see the speech until you just said it right now. I was traveling for the Democrats.
MR. RUSSERT: Well, you just saw it. What did you think of it?
REP. PELOSI: Well, we all have our own style in all of these things, and I think that he has reached the level that many of us have that we are risking our young people's lives in a way that is unfair to them and there has to be a change. So I share the frustration that he has. But I would say once you're calling for the resignation of all those people, it's about the president of the United States.
And I want to say one thing about the president, which also provoked me to say what I said. When I read in the Washington Times what he said about Iraq in one of the exclusive--several exclusive interviews with the Washington Times, Mr. Bush said his father had cut and run from Iraq in 1991. What he actually said was we'll have freedom in Iraq if we don't cut and run like they did in 1991. I think that that's pretty strong rhetoric for this president to say about his father and what he did in 1991. So the--shall we say, the attitudes are running very hot on this subject because there's a great deal at stake
here.
MR. RUSSERT: The difficulty many Democrats are having, and this is how The New York Times captured it. "Iraq policies share many similarities. When it comes to Iraq, it is getting harder every day to distinguish between President Bush's prescription and that of John Kerry. ... It became evident with Mr. Bush's latest speech in Iraq on Monday night, which followed a detailed speech Mr. Kerry gave on Iraq's future some one month ago, the broad outlines of their approaches are more alike than not. That is particularly true as Mr. Bush moves toward giving the United Nations more authority, a move long advocated by Mr. Kerry. They both support the June 30 deadline for the beginning of the transition to civilian power. They both say they would support an increase in United States troop strength, if necessary. Neither has supported a deadline for removing United States troops."
John Kerry voted to support the war, and The New York Times analysis is that his position with George Bush, very similar.
REP. PELOSI: That's because, as you've just indicated, George Bush is moving closer to John Kerry's--President Bush is moving closer to John Kerry's position.
MR. RUSSERT: So what's your complaint?
REP. PELOSI: My complaint is that it's a year too late. We have a situation where if the president had made the speech he made a year, a year-and-a-half earlier, we would not be in the mess that we are in today. And that's the problem. People said to him, "You've got to internationalize it. You've got to make a case to the American people. You've got to make your case to the allies. And if you have a good case, then we can move forward with it," especially when you're talking about a war of choice. And a war of choice that will take resources and intelligence away from the fight on a clear and present danger, which is terrorism.
You saw the sense of community yesterday at the dedication of the World War II Memorial. I think it's really time for America to return to that spirit of community, and that has to be done in a bipartisan way.
And so that these young people will not have died in vain, as President Lincoln said, we have to recommit our country to a sense of community. He said freedom--a rebirth of freedom. I would say a rebirth of community at this time.
MR. RUSSERT: A group called Win Without War had this to say. "There is no military solution in Iraq. We, therefore, call upon our government to commit to ending the military and economic occupation of Iraq and withdrawing our troops by a date certain. There is no justification for letting any young Americans be the last to die for a mistake."
Do you agree with that?
REP. PELOSI: No, I do not. I believe that because of the mess that has been made in Iraq, we have to stay to stabilize Iraq. We have to secure the situation, because now, although it wasn't the case before the war--now it has become a hotbed of terrorist activity. And again we broke it, we own it, we have to do something about it. But it has to be done with great--with much more diplomacy to bring in other countries. Again, internationalize and Iraqitize. Give much more responsibility. This new government is going to have very, very little true sovereignty. I think the more responsibility we give to the Iraqis, the more we internationalize, the better. We cannot leave at this time.
MR. RUSSERT: John Murtha, a Democratic congressman from Pennsylvania, a strong supporter of the war, expressed some real reservations the other day. And it ended this way in an article in The Hill newspaper: "Murtha's bleak analysis led many colleagues to surmise he believes a democratic Iraq is a lost cause."
Do you agree with that?
REP. PELOSI: What Mr. Murtha said precisely was, "Under the present plan, the war is unwinnable." His thinking is not unlike that of General Zinni and and that of General Hoar. We are going into an abyss. The president likes to say, "Stay the course." That's not a plan. That's a motto. And the course, according to General Zinni, that we're on, is taking us over Niagra Falls. And the course, according to General Hoar...
MR. RUSSERT: But can we ever have a democratic Iraq? Is that an honest objective?
REP. PELOSI: I'm not sure that it--we have to stay to see that out. We have to leave a secure Iraq. And if we leave an Iraq that has security and some level of energizing--internationalize, Iraqitize, energize--certain amount of the lights go on, then...
MR. RUSSERT: But if it's secure...
REP. PELOSI: Then I think...
MR. RUSSERT: If it's...
REP. PELOSI: ...we can leave.
MR. RUSSERT: If it's a secure country, but the Iraqis choose an Islamic theocracy, is that their business?
REP. PELOSI: That's their business.
MR. RUSSERT: And we accept it?
REP. PELOSI: That's their business. We said they would have elections, and now we cannot determine what the outcome of those elections would be. But we should have thought more seriously about this in the beginning. Again, a war of choice, based on a lot of information from Chalabi and others, which has proven to be unreliable. And that's why I come back to my criticism of the president. It's a question of judgment. And in order to have the judgment about whose judgment you trust, you have to have some level of experience and knowledge about the situation and not fall prey to those who would exploit our country for their purposes, in terms of why we should go into Iraq.
MR. RUSSERT: On April 3, the Associated Press wrote this, that: "Nancy Pelosi had some advice for John Kerry. Pick a running mate."
REP. PELOSI: Yeah.
MR. RUSSERT: "Sooner rather than later. Do it by May 1." Well, it's May 30, and he still has...
REP. PELOSI: Still hasn't done it. Well...
MR. RUSSERT: Why did he ignore your advice?
REP. PELOSI: Well, let me say this, first of all, the timing on picking the running mate is, of course, the time that is comfortable for the presidential candidate. So when he's ready, we'll all be ready. I believe it was important, and I hope that it will be soon that he will name a running mate, because I didn't like to see John Kerry responding to the vice president and this person and that person, because you are running for president of the United States, and we're going to be so proud of him as president--the values that he brings, the knowledge, the experience, the political savvy, the knowledge of the people.
So I want to be sure that he wins. I don't want to see him in arguments with the vice president or anyone beneath the level of the president of the United States.
MR. RUSSERT: Do you support Dick Gephardt for vice president?
REP. PELOSI: I support him--I supported Dick Gephardt for president of the United States and was proud to do so. The person who should be the vice president is the one that the presidential nominee is comfortable with. So whoever he decides, I will celebrate and work very hard to elect so that in November we will have a Democratic president of the United States, one who can restore our national reputation for our country and grow our economy at home to create jobs. And we will have a Democratic Congress. We will have Tom Daschle as the majority leader of the Senate, and I'll be proud to be the first woman speaker in the history of our country when the Democrats take back the House of Representatives.
MR. RUSSERT: You're going to guarantee that this morning?
REP. PELOSI: Well, I'll guarantee you one thing, one guarantee a program: I will guarantee you that John Kerry will be president of the United States.
MR. RUSSERT: And we'll be watching. To be continued. Nancy Pelosi, thank you for your views.
REP. PELOSI: Thank you, Tim. |
