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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group
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To: Ilaine who wrote (139701)7/10/2004 12:14:06 PM
From: Sun Tzu  Read Replies (1) of 281500
 
I make the case simple for you in non-insulting form.

The Claim
The White House and the Neocons willingly ignored contrary evidence or views/exaggerated/lied to the American public to push their war agenda.

Evidence for the claim
1. Using an out of date and plagiarized student research paper as top notch intel report.

2. Presenting a clearly fake document on Niger Uranium purchase.

3. Using testimony of the Iraqi defectors whom CIA had declared unreliable.

4. Not applying critical reasoning to the motivations behind those claims and not analyzing the so called intel properly.

5. Failing to investigate the reasons behind above fallacies before presenting the rest of their "evidence".

Your counter claim
"I willingly concede that most Americans are completely unable to cope with the facility with which people from the Middle East tell lies. It's a skill set vastly superior to any we deal with among ourselves. We are as babes in the woods compared to you guys. Kudos and all that."

Thereby you are implying that the Iraqi defectors were just too good of a liar to constant and excessive habitual lying and thus managed to dupe the admin.

Evidence for the your counter claim
1. Your personal experience with criminals of ME origin compared with other criminals.

2. The opinions of your secretary on the same clientele.

3. The discussions you've had with others in your circle.

4. The Iraqi Information Minister who lied blatantly on TV.

Response to Counter Claim
1. You have not addressed the issue of White House's knowledge and/or lax attitude towards investigating the lies to make sure they acted on sound information.

2. Your clientele are not a representative of sample of the Middle East. You have not provided data (even as hearsay) on perjury convictions for ME witnesses versus other ethnic groups.

3. Assuming your clientele is a sufficient sample, this just proves that Middle Easterners are NOT good liars because untrained people such as your secretary could tell they lied. Therefore CIA and the White House would have known this even better than you and still chose to rely on the "intelligence".

4. The person who chooses to turn a blind eye to a lie and propagate it as the truth to bolster his own case is far greater liar than the original liar because not only he has misinformed the people, he has done so while looking legitimate.

Now I am waiting for you to either concede or refute these points.

Sun Tzu

...and in the future, try to stick to the discussion at hand rather than showing off your prejudices. But if do make racist remarks, make sure you can at least support them with something better than "I just know so".
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