Alan - I want to thank you for your honesty and sincerity
when sharing where you are at. You admit you could not worship
a God that ordained men to suffer for eternity - that is huge
I on the other hand struggled with those things myself albeit
long ago from now -
when I first discovered the truth about reprobation and damnation.
I would have to say it is by far the most difficult aspect of lire
to grapple with but I "believe" that I am totally at peace with it.
This is what some reformers said about these facts:
Chapter III
Of God's Eternal Decree
I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy
counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain
whatsoever comes to pass;[1] yet so, as thereby neither is
God the author of sin,[2] nor is violence offered to the
will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of
second causes taken away, but rather established.[3]
II. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass
upon all supposed conditions;[4] yet has He not decreed
anything because He foresaw it as future, or as that which
would come to pass upon such conditions.[5]
III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His
glory, some men and angels[6] are predestinated unto
everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.[7]
IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated, and
foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed,
and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be
either increased or diminished.[8]
V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God,
before the foundation of the world was laid, according to
His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel
and good pleasure of His will, has chosen, in Christ, unto
everlasting glory,[9] out of His mere free grace and love,
without any foresight of faith, or good works, or
perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the
creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto;
[10] and all to the praise of His glorious grace.[11]
VI. As God has appointed the elect unto glory, so has He,
by the eternal and most free purpose of His will,
foreordained all the means thereunto.[12] Wherefore, they
who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by
Christ,[13] are effectually called unto faith in Christ by
His Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted,
sanctified,[14] and kept by His power, through faith, unto
salvation.[15] Neither are any other redeemed by Christ,
effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and
saved, but the elect only.[16]
VII. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the
unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extends or
withholds mercy, as He pleases, for the glory of His
sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by; and to
ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the
praised of His glorious justice.[17]
VIII. The doctrine of this high mystery of
predestination is to be handled with special prudence and
care,[18] that men, attending the will of God revealed
in His Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from
the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of
their eternal election.[19] So shall this doctrine afford
matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God;[20] and
of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all
that sincerely obey the Gospel.[21]
Men have been worshipping God for generations knowing that God
has ordained whatsoever came to pass for centuries.
This was penned between 1643 and 1647 - the doctrines of predestination
have always contained doctrines of reprobation and damnation.
These men also had carnal, human minds - yet they and I worship God
knowing that He intends not to save all men.
Judas - is a classic example of someone who would have been
better to never have existed - because he went to suffer for eternity.
There is no other explanation.
These men who wrote the Westminster Confession knew the bible
well - that did not keep them from error as I acknowledge they
were all wrong about the anti-christ and the second coming
but I point out that even after much study they concluded these
statements as being true and yet they worshipped God.
I do not buy your personal explanation for why you would not
worship God *IF* He intends to punish men forever.
I believe you are in rebellion - I believe your answer to be
quite honest however as far as you know yourself but you will
allow God to be God in the area of eternal punishment.
God will do as He wills with men:
Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath,
and to make his power known, endured with much
longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
God "fitted" them - men are ordained to condemnation:
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate,
but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in
everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment <2920> of the great day.
Look up 2920 in Strongs and look to other sources for the meaning.
Are even satan's angels saved and bowing to God in the end?
The demons confessed Christ was Lord but begged Him to not
suffer them before the time - is even Satan saved in the end?
Surely if God knows and ordains all things and must save all men
then why would your demands upon God not extend to Satanic beings and powers.
Yes - Alan - I believe without asking you must think Satan will
enjoy eternal life because your judgement of God says HE MUST
This is what Paul said to men like you:
Romans 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God?
Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it,
Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay,
of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Dishonor or eternal damnation or whatsoever the potter desires?
Think deeply about this Alan - you err in your attitude.
Even if you were right - would not God still have the right to
do as He pleases among the inhabitants of the earth both here
and eternally - where ever He choses to place them?
Daniel 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing:
and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven,
and among the inhabitants of the earth:
and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
I think you need to get to a place where you allow God to be God
and acknowledge that He can do whatsoever He wills with you and
your soul for eternity - in spite of your perspective on justice and mercy.
That however may be merely my opinion - it is really between
God and yourself and to be honest likely not my business anyway.
Back to studying your "ages"
Brian |
