Netscape (Firefox) and Silicon Investor
Hi Don,
<< Moving the browser discussion away from the other board... >>
Yes. Appropriate. For those here that aren't aware, you were an "early Netscape" victim of the introduction of the new SI server platform and its UI, and we discussed the problem you experienced on the "New SI Interface Discussion" board hosted by SI's owner (Bib) and his admim (Dave).
In a nutshell you couldn't log into SI with Netscape (?) 4 (?) because Netscape rendered the "new" log in page background black for you. That is a clasic & typical Netscape 3/4 problem. Once you logged in the problem resolved indicating there was some code on the log-in page that your woefully obsolete Netscape browsers didn't like.
[You are evidently, from what you say here, using Communicator not Navigator, but I (we) still don't know the version number. If you furnish that from Help | About, we might be able to scope in on that from the old Netscape bug reports or some work around sheets I have in my archives].
<< Perhaps it doesn't make sense to those who like more recent browsers, but Netscape 3 is still my favorite for a number of reasons. >>
I fully understand. For its time, Netscape 3.04 (with its HIGHLY proprietary code and with its initial bugs worked out) was THE BEST available browser six to seven years ago. I ran it as primary for over a year even as I was beta testing the 4x versions of Navigator and Communicator, IE betas from 3x forward, while using Forte's Agent as primary mail client and newsgroup reader (with cc:Mail for business).
The root problem is Netscape 3 (or 4) is well past its (their) prime. No web designer gives any thought to them, With less than ½ of 1% of usage on websites and declining rapidly, they shouldn't have to.
<< I tried Netscape 7 sometime back and my overall impression is it acted more like a virus than anything useful. >>
Netscape 7 even with the Mozilla engine gets you back into proprietary land. If it was 7.0x it WOULD act like a virus. I understand 7.1 is reasonably clean, stable, and tight. I haven't had much feedback on 7.2, but essentially Netscape 7.x whatever, is extinct as a practical matter.
<< For a more current browser to back up Netscape 3 I also have IE 5 with the recommended patches and updated security certificates. >>
IE5 is a pretty solid, stable performer. Not current. Not up to date. Not supported. Simply stable.
<< I downloaded an updated version of Microsoft's media viewer sometime back, and uninstalled it after reading the fine print in the user agreement. Among other things, the viewer collects information about every song you listen to and every movie you watch, then sends the information back to Microsoft. >>
Only if you let it.
Your alternative (for webcasts) is RealPlayer, which will creep its way into everything if you let it, or even if you try to prevent it. Same with QuickTime and many other plug-ins or extensions.
<< Aside from the fact it usually takes Microsoft a few years to find all the security flaws in every new version of their software, I really don't care for the idea of being spied on by Uncle Bill. >>
I'm not overly paranoid but neither do I. By Bill or Steve, or anyone else, which is why we pay a LOT of attention to spyware and adware protection, firewalls and routers in this forum.
I'm like almost everybody else. I Love/Hate Microsoft. I can't live with em, but I can't live without em. I haven't run a competitive OS on a PC since 1983 (CTOS from Convergent). Heck, today IE6 is simply an extension of XP that I run on my desktops and NT5+ (WIN2000) that I run on my company issue notebook. Microsoft provides my (and my company's) default word processor, my spreadsheet, my database, my presentation program.
<< I've also found in general that installing any new software tends to preempt a whole lot of different programs on my PC that I like just the way they are. Icons are changed, default settings are moved to other programs, etc.. >>
I'm a Firefox "Newbie" but after over a week of daily use, I'm pleased to report that it does not (or appears not to) have that behavior. I have yet to see a disruption or conflict with it and I'm running it open concurrently with IE6, 3 mail clients, and several other apps.
<< If there were a product identical to Netscape 3, that was updated to recognize changes in programming language and security, but without any additional nonsense, I'd be tickled to death to have one. >>
Closest you'll get in this more sophisticated age (multimedia-wise) is Firefox, or Opera (which I now use in a mobile wireless environment), or Konqueror, and Firefox is likely to be the most widely proliferated of those, best supported and most considered. IE5 isn't a bad alternative, but its not really supported anymore. Web life has passed it by, but nowhere near so much as it has passed Navigator and Communicator by, or users of same.
<< Thanks for the Mozilla Firefox suggestion. I'll take a look at it when I have more time >>
You're welcome. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised, and I think it will be worth your investment in time to cut the obsolete Netscape 3/4 cord. By todays standards Firefox is a pretty small download (and can be ordered on CD with manual for very modest cost - which I did after download).
It installs easily. It imports bookmarks and other settings well (not sure about early Netscape settings). It "looks like" earlier Netscapes. It doesn't take over anything, although I would (and did) initially decline the option to make it the default browser. Unlike IE (or early Netscapes) it is fully standards compliant.
You'll want a few extensions (latest Java, Shockwave, etc., but its highly extensible, and compatible extensions are increasingly available. There is a BIG development community behind the Firefox effort. Best yet, the "adjustment curve" to Firefox is very short. Surprisingly short.
I'm not ready to pronounce Firefox 1.01 PR stable, or clean, or wonderful, after less than two weeks hands on, and I'm not here to "tout" it, but anyone running obsolete browsers should run, not walk, to check it out, IMO, as should those that want an alternative or backup to the bloated (but very good) Internet Explorer.
I'll tell you this without reservation - once we have mastered the nuances of "tabbed browsing," which doesn't take long - we are likely gonna be hooked on that capability, and any browser without it is gonna seem archaic. I place the optional "open new tab" icon on the top toolbar, and make extensive use of it.
Firefox also works exceptionally well with the new SI interface and the infinitely variable fonts and objects best enjoyed with a Microsoft wheel mouse are highly useful. Kind of a gas, actually. Us older folks can see things we never saw before. <g>
<< I would probably hesitate to try it until it has a little more history behind it >>
The history is pretty extensive and pretty good, and very well documented. Firefox wasn't born yesterday.
I fully understand where you are coming from, Don, and have empathy. Been there, done that.
To you, Netscape 3 & 4 are like a comfortable pair of old, well worn, Bass Weejuns. Unfortunately, if you took those aged Weejuns, worn out soles, heels, stitching, support, and all, to a cobbler, if you could find a decent cobbler in this day and age, he'd probably tell you (most decent cobblers being intellectually honest as well as being good at their craft like my favorite uncle, the cobbler and eventually shoe store owner was) that it is probably time to invest in a new pair of loafers, even if the old last no longer exists, and even if a new pair will require some break-in.
It is a PITB for anyone of us to break in new shoes, new browsers, new apps, new OS, new DPE. In this respect, so far, I rate Firefox at least an 8½ on a scale of 10. It has a short learning curve. Not totally painless, but almost as good as it's gonna get.
You may have noticed that I have started a "Mozilla: Firefox and Thunderbird" discussion board for Firefox & T-Bird "Newbies" like me (or potentially you or others):
Subject 55208
Feel free to check in and contribute on that board should you choose to try Firefox, or need further information prior to deciding whether or not that move makes sense to you.
As a matter of netiquette I generally consider it rude to move discussions all over a forum, although that has its place (as your move of our discussion here certainly did) but with your permission - and only with your permission - I would like to post my response to you here to the new Firefox board linking back to your original post here.
Best 2 U and your Browser of Choice,
- Eric - |
