Should God be replaced? Message Board

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Politics : Should God be replaced?

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To: Solon who wrote (18889)	12/6/2004 9:07:57 PM
From: E. Charters	Read Replies (1) of 28931

It is not deus ex machina to say that what came before the universe had no natural law to govern it. That is part and parcel of what Godel showed, in that a system cannot justify itself. In that for instance no axiom of a system of mathematics can justify the mathematical system in toto. This is very basic and the teach it in first year psychology now. You cannot use a system's tools to verify the system. Mathematics cannot justify math. Logic cannot support the need for logic. Sorry. It cannot. In order to refute this one must show how the pre-universe-system could operate by the universe's laws and still not be the universe. You must also do it with refernce to Godel's completeness theorem, as it his theorem that establishes this. If you do, I would recommend you to a doctorate in Philosophy at a major university. This is not to say that I am correct, but to prove me wrong takes some doing. Supposition --> I am afraid it is necessary to say that that which came before the universe did not operate by natural law. If it did, it would be the universe.. in a pre universe form. An impossibility. The Godel proof of god, is not simplistic. Ontological and in need of difficult assumptions, but not simplistic. It need an understanding of the attribute of positivity and completeness in logic which is not simple. Godel's line reasoning went on to show that AI is impossible and also shows how one must suspend the operation of a computer operating system to discover viruses. It had predictive power of an elemental kind. It would be unwise to dismiss it cavalierly. The religionists who said Godel did not prove god existed missed the point. What he proved is that if one accepts the nature of a god, then that god provably must exist. This is subtle and very hard to prove but almost inescapable. It involves a protean knowledge of advanced logic and set theory. Those less than MS candidates of logic and mathematics need not pretend complete understanding. EC<:-}

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