Hi michael97123; Re: "There are many arab countries including one Palestinian one already in Jordan."
The "many" Arab countries are why the Arabs are weak. This is probably a temporary historical artifact of how the land was divided up after the fall of the Ottoman empire.
Re: "Your above statement has more meaning if you substitute jewish for arab ..."
This planet was run the same way 2500 years ago as it is now, more or less. He who has the power uses it. The Jews have been no different from any other in this regard, either now, or in the distant past.
Re: "... and recognize the right of a jewish state to exist ..."
The rule for thousands of years has been that the right of any state to exist is founded on the power possessed by that state. What I "recognize" has nothing to do with it.
Re: "... in the region side by side with all the arab states including a second palestinian one if thats what they desire."
After all this time, you still don't know what the Palestinians desire??? No wonder the area is dangerous. It's clear to me that the Palestinians (and also the Arabs in general, in particular the ones that are kicking our ass in Iraq) want Palestinian rule throughout Israel. Any number of polls support this simple fact. Why don't you admit the same.
Re: "No one here is denying the Arab rights to nationhood or to as many nations as they desire."
You're missing the point. "Many nations" is a curse of weakness, it is not something that the Arabs, in general, desire. If they could take a vote and unite themselves into a single state I have no doubt that they'd do it.
Your argument seems to be based on the conception that ethnic groups are each allotted a certain number of states, and that the Arabs have already been a bit unfair in having so many of them, while at the same time insisting that the Jews not be allowed one. The historical reality is that strong nation states suppress small ethnic states near their borders and especially within their borders.
For several thousand years, the state of Israel was suppressed by stronger nation states. In addition to suppression by the Arabs, the Romans and the Turks also suppressed Israeli statehood. (I'm leaving a lot out.) If the Arabs ever were to unite, the Israelis would become very worried.
One might paraphrase your comment and write, with regard to the American Civil war, "no one here is denying the American rights to nationhood or to as many nations as they desire." In the context of the Civil war, your comment is as empty as it is in the context of the Palestinian conflict.
In 1860 it was not the desire of Lincoln to have "as many nations as the American people desire" any more than it is now the desire of the Arabs to have the same thing.
It is not disunity that people fight for. Disunity is easy, it requires no fighting at all. For example, see the splitting of the Czechs and Slovaks, or the signing away of the Panama Canal, etc.
Where fighting is involved is in the process of producing unity, especially unity amongst people who don't want to be unified. This is the essence of the problem in Israel.
-- Carl |
