What seems to be the difference between denying women university degrees (telling them to get lessons in same courses and tell the world their education is the same as a university degrees) and denying them a marriage license and act
A marriage license is a formal document allowing for government recognition of something. A university education is not just a formal document. If you allowed women to attend classes, be on the roles, accumulate credits, transfer transcripts ect. but denied them a diploma then it would be closer to the situation with "gay marriage". Such actions would be unfair discrimination (more clearly so then the gay marriage situation is) but they wouldn't be an infringement on freedom as much as they would be unfair treatment because someone is not getting something they deserve and which others in a similar situation get.
really they are asking society for approval as well.
No, they are not. They are asking what everyone else has a right to do - to marry the person they love.
To a large extent "to marry the person they love" means to have the marriage recognized by society. They aren't asking that that society would be happy about it but they are asking it be recognized.
Marriage includes a number of different things normally lumped together. It is a type of formal union between two people, usually based on romance and sex among other things. Its a ceremony to solemnize the union (even a marriage by a justice of the peace or by an Elvis impersonator in Vegas is a small ceremony) It is also society's recognition of such a union. Then you can also talk about benefits that the government gives to the union. The question of whether or not lack of recognition of certain things as marriage is a freedom issue gets confused by the fact that some of these things are issues of freedom and some are not.
If you don't let consenting adults have sex and sexual relationships and live together or if you don't let them have ceremonies commemorating their relationship, then you are restricting and controlling them and limiting their freedom.
If you don't give them government benefits for having such a relationship or if you don't print out a document calling their relationship a marriage you are not controlling them or limiting their freedom, even if you are treating them unfairly.
Denial is not a very effective debate technique, imho. The freedom that is restricted, obviously, is the freedom to marry the person of your choice.
They can marry anyone they want. The government won't recognize it but lack of government recognition or documentation or support does not itself constitute and infringement on freedom. If the government takes action against them because they are not in a marriage recognized by the government than that action, not the lack of recognition, is the infringement on their freedom.
The important principle is that your freedom is not infringed on by the lack of action of others, or by their lack of approval or recognition, or support for your actions or relationships. If they do nothing to you, they are not infringing on your freedom, even if they refuse to do something for you that they would normally do for someone else.
Tim |
