"Blogger Exclusive: Interview With Pantano Defense Attorney Charles Gittins
by Kit Jarrell @ 11:24. Filed under 2 Lt. Ilario Pantano
As promised. =)
Kit Jarrell: Was this case harder than others you’ve done?
Charles Gittins: No. Self-defense is one of the best defenses under the law. Even if he was not actually endangered, but if he believed he was, he was entitled to use self-defense. So, I was confident that Ilario was not likely to be convicted of murder.
KJ: Was there ever a time when you thought perhaps Ilario WOULD be convicted?
CG: No. Not after I talked to my client and looked into his eyes. I was not going to second guess a Marine officer who had to make a tough choice in a dangerous place in dangerous circumstances and I had every confidence that a Marine Corps jury would feel the same way. That is one reason why we waived the Article 32.
KJ: Was there ever a time you believed he was guilty?
CG: Never.
KJ: There was a lot of talk in the blogs and various forums - some of it by JAG officers - that questioned your tactics; specifically, your choice during the investigation phase not to have Ilario take a polygraph, and during the hearing your decision not to have him testify. Why not have him take a polygraph? Why not let him testify?
CG: I am sure there are lots of people who are not in my position who questioned my tactics. That’s why I was representing Ilario and not them. It is easy to be a spectator, much less easy to be making those tactical calls with the client’s life on the line. The results speak for themselves. Polygraphs are unreliable and only as good as the polygrapher, the questions and the circumstances of the polygraph. Ilario was never offered a polygraph. He didn’t testify because there was no reason to do so. He reported the circumstances to his chain of command shortly after the fact; made a sworn statement in which he again reported exactly what he did and why. Then the Government played his Dateline interview at the Article 32 where Ilario was asked all of the hard questions by Stone Phillips and answered them all. Why would he then testify? He was on the record for the Investigating Officer and could add nothing more to what he had already said.
KJ: How do you respond to accusations that any danger to future Marines caught in Ilario’s position is due solely to your publicizing of the case before the hearing?
CG: Ridiculous. The danger is not in publicizing that the Marine Corps should not have charged Ilario; the danger was in the fact that a Marine Officer who was in a position and needed to make a life or death decision did so, killed two confirmed Iraqi insurgents involved in bomb-making, survived, and then was charged with the most serious crime possible under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, where he faced death or the rest of his life in prison. That’s why Marines will second guess their decisions, not because they read about Lt Pantano’s aggressive defense of his actions in combat.
KJ: Did you approach the defense of Ilario with the intent of showing Coburn’s credibility issues, or did that just fall into your lap?
CG: We knew that SGT Coburn had credibility issues. We always intended to challenge his credibility. The bonus came when he decided he needed to “defend himself” and started making false statements to members of the press after he was ordered not to. We benefited from a witness who showed himself to not be particularly astute.
KJ: What about these autopsies? They recovered the bodies? What did the autopsies show?
CG: Good questions. They have not provided that information to us. Obviously, it didn’t support the Government’s theory of the case.
KJ: The military is becoming more “PC” all the time. Do you think troops being charged with murder during combat is a growing trend? Will we see more of this, or was Ilario’s case an isolated one?
CG: Sadly, yes to both questions.
KJ: How long before we see this in a movie or book?
CG: I wouldn’t know. My job was to represent Ilario on the criminal charges. I don’t do books; I defend people.
KJ: What can we expect from you? Will you be working with Defend the Defenders in any kind of official capacity?
CG: I hope so. I think that I can provide advice on the kinds of cases they should get involved in and, in appropriate cases, perhaps I could assist in the defense."
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