Just the Facts, Ma'am: A Compendium of Liberal Fiction Message Board

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Politics : Just the Facts, Ma'am: A Compendium of Liberal Fiction

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To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (44706)	1/21/2006 12:46:26 PM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) of 90947

"That's like saying the practice of Judaism in Nazi Germany was voluntary, but dying when the Gestapo's bullets hit was not" No, that is not the point. I am trying to make a distinction between governments which use force to legitimately further civilized and moral values, versus governments which use force to promote criminal activity. I am trying to point out that "force" is a neutral concept, and may be moralized only in circumstance and context. "And all gov'ts are based fundamentally on the threat of force to ensure obedience" Surely we have no disagreement on the obvious fact that Governments enFORCE the Constitutional Agreement and legislation that flows therefrom--but somehow we seem to be talking past one another. Let me state again: Civilized democratic Governments exist and govern by agreement. Agreements which either compel or prohibit certain conduct will also provide for the appropriate exercise of enFORCEment. Force in and of itself is not immoral. If the founders of the U.S. Constitution had agreed to include a sharing of health care costs in their Constitutional Agreement, then this would have had no less moral justification than any other agreement entered into by competent and free men as to obligations of the parties one to another. Such an agreement would not rationally fall under "Rights". Instead it would reflect self interest in creating a positive society and a beneficial environment--something we form agreements on in small groups every day...* My interest in a compassionate society which finds alternatives to poverty, crime, and disease is strictly a selfish one. I would not enjoy living with bars on all my windows--nor strolling through a park full of beggars and thieves.

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