"I am talking about attacking society not "the social structure"."
There is no substantial difference in the context and terms of this discussion. Social means "of or relating to human society , the interaction of the individual and the group, or the welfare of human beings as members of society. Structure is the democratic and constitutional framework in which society places reliance and trust for the protection of your rights and freedoms.
"I am saying it is is beneficial it isn't an attack on society."
Then you are saying falsely. It IS an attack on society. Civil disobedience, in fact, is a primary method of bringing about social change. And one can understand a group of people trying to change a law they feel is unjust. But pretending that breaking laws does not undermine society is just nonsense. It is not a matter of being able to see something awesome from the actions of one person (not usually, anyway). Instead, it is a question of logic.
"Prohibition itself undermined the rule of law more than having a drink during prohibition did"
It did no such thing. It informed the law. Breaking the law undermined that law and eventually overthrew it entirely. The law had created a criminal underground that was making money hand over fist.
"Unreasonable, unjust and/or overly complex laws do that. They lessen respect for the law"
Whether or not this is true, it is irrelevant to the question of whether or not the rule of law, and the equal responsibility to live lawfully, is or is not the essence of your representative democracy resting as it does on Constitutionally declared fundamental rights and freedoms.
"I've used "attack", as short hand for initiating force or fraud against someone"
When you undermine the mutual respect and regard and duty to obey Any and ALL laws, you undermine the basis of your democratic society. If every citizen tomorrow were given carte blanche to break their ten most detested laws you would see what I mean as chaos would quickly ensue. It is no less true for 1 million people breaking their favorite laws tomorrow. It is no less true for ten people. It is no less true for one person violating one law. The practical effect of breaking that law is irrelevant to the fact. The moral merit is irrelevant to the fact. The fact is one of logic and one of reason and one of philosophy.
It DOESN'T MATTER whether this is part of a good direction or a bad direction. We cannot even consider the justification for civil disobedience until we recognize the FACT that disobeying laws undermines society.
"I don't care what is purported"
Whether or not this is true, it is irrelevant to the question of whether or not the rule of law, and the equal responsibility to live lawfully, is or is not the essence of your representative democracy resting as it does on Constitutionally declared fundamental rights and freedoms.
"The law might have a very good purported reason, but it may not serve that reason or even honestly be an attempt to serve that reason"
Whether or not this is true, it is irrelevant to the question of whether or not the rule of law, and the equal responsibility to live lawfully, is or is not the essence of your representative democracy resting as it does on Constitutionally declared fundamental rights and freedoms.
"All sorts of special interests get laws to their benefit."
Whether or not this is true, it is irrelevant to the question of whether or not the rule of law, and the equal responsibility to live lawfully, is or is not the essence of your representative democracy resting as it does on Constitutionally declared fundamental rights and freedoms.
"The laws sometimes are purported to be for the special interest but often are not."
Whether or not this is true, it is irrelevant to the question of whether or not the rule of law, and the equal responsibility to live lawfully, is or is not the essence of your representative democracy resting as it does on Constitutionally declared fundamental rights and freedoms.
"They are claimed to have some higher purpose that they do not actually serve"
Whether or not this is true, it is irrelevant to the question of whether or not the rule of law, and the equal responsibility to live lawfully, is or is not the essence of your representative democracy resting as it does on Constitutionally declared fundamental rights and freedoms.
"Such laws are themselves an offense against society."
Whether or not this is true, it is irrelevant to the question of whether or not the rule of law, and the equal responsibility to live lawfully, is or is not the essence of your representative democracy resting as it does on Constitutionally declared fundamental rights and freedoms.
"The government is not society.
"One role of our government is to protect our rights.The
United States government is “by the people.” This means
that the people create the government and decide who will
lead them. Our government is “of the people.” This means
that each citizen has a say in the government. Our
government is “for the people” because it is for the good
of everyone.
The United States is a democracy.The people decide who
will lead and what the government will do. But there are too
many people to vote on every decision. So people choose
representatives, who vote for them in the government.
Representatives make decisions and represent the people.
Citizens vote for representatives in an election.
Before 1776, the states were colonies ruled by Great
Britain. People in the colonies wanted to be free from
British rule.They wrote the Declaration of Independence to
explain why they wanted to break ties with Britain.
The leaders of the United States wrote the Constitution in
1787.The Bill of Rights is part of the Constitution. It
protects our rights and freedoms. It makes sure all citizens
have freedom, equality, and justice.The Bill of Rights also
limits the powers of the government.
The Constitution set up three branches of government.
This helps make sure that one branch does not get too
powerful.The legislative branch makes laws. Citizens elect
representatives to Congress. Congress has two parts, the
House of Representatives and the Senate.The executive
branch carries out the laws.The President is head of the
executive branch.The judicial branch decides questions
about the laws.This branch includes the courts.The Supreme
Court is the highest court in the United States. It has the
final say on laws.The Supreme Court decides what laws
mean and if they are allowed by the Constitution."
"It imperfectly represents the people in society but not all of its laws are supported by an consensus of society or understood by most of the people in our society."
Whether or not this is true, it is irrelevant to the question of whether or not the rule of law, and the equal responsibility to live lawfully, is or is not the essence of your representative democracy resting as it does on Constitutionally declared fundamental rights and freedoms.
"Offending against a law is not attacking society"
Proven false already. Undermining the rule of law is undermining the basis of the U.S. Constitutional democracy.
"The government is a tool of society it is not society"
The people in Government are as much a part of society as any other people.
Whether or not this is true, it is irrelevant to the question of whether or not the rule of law, and the equal responsibility to live lawfully, is or is not the essence of your representative democracy resting as it does on Constitutionally declared fundamental rights and freedoms.
"The law is a tool of government"
The law is the safeguard of the rights and freedoms of citizens.
Whether or not this is true, it is irrelevant to the question of whether or not the rule of law, and the equal responsibility to live lawfully, is or is not the essence of your representative democracy resting as it does on Constitutionally declared fundamental rights and freedoms.
"Offending against a specific law does not automatically serve to undermine the concept of the rule of law"
It has nothing to do with concepts. Undermining the law undermines the law. And undermining the law undermines the basis of the U.S. Constitutional democracy--which being the rule of law and the equal obligation of all to regard, respect, and obey the law.
"Respect the law is an important moral idea but it does not enjoy a special privileged position against other moral ideas."
Whether or not this is true, it is irrelevant to the question of whether or not the rule of law, and the equal responsibility to live lawfully, is or is not the essence of your representative democracy resting as it does on Constitutionally declared fundamental rights and freedoms. |
