Just the Facts, Ma'am: A Compendium of Liberal Fiction Message Board

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Politics : Just the Facts, Ma'am: A Compendium of Liberal Fiction

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To: TimF who wrote (46118)	3/11/2006 4:23:07 PM
From: Solon	Read Replies (2) of 90947

"If you quote someone misusing the term, that doesn't mean I should start using it." They did not misuse the term. Your own dictionary reference refers to a "close association of nations"..."formed to advance common interests or causes". To deny that the U.S. and Iraq associated and to deny it was for common cause and to assist mutual interests is to deny the record. Your own dictionary reference refers to a "connection based on"..."...common interests". To deny that the U.S. and Iraq had a connection based on common interest(s) is to deny the factual record. Webster's refers to "an association to further the common interests of the members (in this case "members" meaning Nations). To deny that the U.S. and Iraq associated in a common cause is to deny the factual record. Webster's defines "league" as "an association of nations or other political entities for a common purpose". It defines "ally" as "a sovereign or state associated with another by treaty or league. In other words: The association of U.S. and Iraq for a common purpose. To deny that the U.S. and Iraq were associated against a common enemy and for a common cause and to further mutual benefits is to deny the factual record. Webster's also defines "ally" as "one that is associated with another as a helper". To deny that the U.S. helped Iraq or that Iraq helped the interests of the U.S. is to deny the factual record. So when I quote those educated writers and speakers using the term "ally" to refer to the sharing of common cause and mutual support that DID factually occur during the Iranian-Iraq war, I am NOT quoting people misusing the term. I am quoting people competent and knowledgeable in the use of the english language. And although the point is irrelevant, I will state for the record that in none of those instances was the recounting of those facts intended to be premises to any hostile or extraordinary points or hypotheses. "That's a staw man, I never even implied there was some sinister plot." It is not a straw man. I did not introduce it as having any relevance to the argument at hand. I introduced it as my own speculation as to what could be preventing you from seeing the obvious--and as my attempt to rationalize your refusal to see the correspondence between the factual record and the obvious conformance of the educated commentary with the dictionary. Not a straw man: a personal speculation. I take it from your response, that my speculation is either wholly or partially missing the mark. I found your answers to be very evasive and intentionally shifty. The definitions and the usage and the common knowledge is so obvious to me that I am searching for some factoid that would explain your resistance to those obvious facts. I mean, just to take one definition...to be associated with another as a helper. Well, this seems like a no-brainer to me as do the other definitions I quoted. For all the educated people whom speak freely of this alliance and of the Stalin alliance and of the old Iranian alliance...all of this seems beneath rational argument. So I only speculated that you imagined some sort of a plot because frankly I do not know what else to speculate as to your unwillingness to match the definition to the facts. "If you quote someone misusing the term, that doesn't mean I should start using it." I will pass that on to Webster's and all the educated writers and speakers I quoted to you. They will be glad of your correction, I am sure! :-)

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