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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group

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To: Bilow who wrote (198042)8/18/2006 10:35:36 PM
From: Sam  Read Replies (2) of 281500
 
And if what we just saw in Lebanon was an example of "harder", then even you must agree that Israel is in deep trouble.

What we saw in Lebanon was a kind of sleepwalking. The leadership thought they could win with bombs. They were idiots. They made a similar error that the US made with their "Shock and Awe" campaign. Even bigger bombs wouldn't have worked, as you rightly pointed out in an earlier post--you can't easily bomb positions that you don't know about. The terrain is rugged, sure--b ut what the heck were the Israelis doing between 1982 and 2000, when the Army was there? Weren't they making detailed maps of that rugged terrain? Or were they just wasting their time, alienating the locals? If the not the former, they were idiots then too, and you're right--they will eventually lose their state, at least as a "Jewish" state.

From the blogs and reports I've read, they had no idea how to fight a war that lasted longer than a week. That is nuts. They had better send some people to the US ASAP and learn how to be efficient Staff Sargents and Quartermaster Generals in the field. Unless that French General is a really dedicated guy who will actually search for and eliminate the Hezbollah bunkers, they will need those Sargents in the next war. And some detailed maps. And a better plan. Almost any plan would have been better than the one they had. They were doing a fine job of emulating Jerry Bremer, Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and Gang.

There is one ray of hope, though. Can you imagine something like the following criticism occuring the US immediately following combat? Yes, some in the military have been critizing what is going on in Iraq--but they have been declared "traitors" or "extremists" or marginalized.

Israeli troops criticize army, equipment
By BENJAMIN HARVEY, Associated Press Writer

Israeli soldiers returning from the war in Lebanon say the army was slow to rescue wounded comrades and suffered from a lack of supplies so dire that they had to drink water from the canteens of dead Hezbollah guerrillas.

"We fought for nothing. We cleared houses that will be reoccupied in no time," said Ilia Marshak, a 22-year-old infantryman who spent a week in Lebanon.

Marshak said his unit was hindered by a lack of information, poor training and untested equipment. In one instance, Israeli troops occupying two houses inadvertently fired at each other because of poor communication between their commanders.

"We almost killed each other," he said. "We shot like blind people. ... We shot sheep and goats."

In a nation mythologized for decisive military victories over Arab foes, the stalemate after a 34-day war in Lebanon has surprised many.

The war was widely seen in Israel as a just response to a July 12 cross-border attack in which Hezbollah gunmen killed three Israeli soldiers and captured two. But the wartime solidarity crumbled after Israel agreed to pull its army from south Lebanon without crushing Hezbollah or rescuing the captured soldiers.

A total of 118 Israeli soldiers were killed in the fighting, and the army was often caught off guard by a well-trained guerrilla force backed by Iran and Syria that used sophisticated weapons and tactics. Soldiers, for instance, complained that Hezbollah fighters sometimes disguised themselves in Israeli uniforms.

Military experts and commentators have criticized the army for relying too heavily on air power and delaying the start of ground action for too long. They say the army underestimated Hezbollah, and that Prime Minister Ehud Olmert set an unrealistic goal by pledging to destroy the guerrilla group.

This week, Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz appointed a former army chief to investigate the military's handling of the war.

Some of the harshest criticism has come from reservists, who form the backbone of the army. Israeli men do three years of mandatory service beginning at age 18, but continue to do reserve duty several weeks a year into their 40s.

Israeli newspapers quoted disgruntled reservists as saying they had no provisions in Lebanon, were sent into battle with outdated or faulty equipment and insufficient supplies, and received little or no training.

"I personally haven't thrown a grenade in 15 years, and I thought I'd get a chance to do so before going north," an unidentified reservist in an elite infantry brigade was quoted as telling the Maariv daily.

Israel's largest paper, Yediot Ahronot, quoted one soldier as saying thirsty troops threw chlorine tablets into filthy water in sheep and cow troughs. Another said his unit took canteens from dead guerrillas.

"When you're thirsty and have to keep fighting, you don't think a lot, and there is no time to feel disgusted," the unidentified soldier was quoted as saying.

The newspaper said helicopters were hindered from delivering food supplies or carrying out rescue operations because commanders feared the aircraft would be shot down. In some cases, soldiers bled to death because they were not rescued in time, Yediot Ahronot said.

The Israeli military said it was aware of the complaints, had tried to address them in the course of the fighting and was still looking into them. It had no comment on specific complaints.

Comrades of the two soldiers captured by Hezbollah sent a petition to the prime minister Thursday accusing the government of abandoning the men.

"We went to reserve duty with the certainty that all of Israel's citizens, and the Israeli government, believe in the same value that every combatant learns from his first day in basic training — you don't leave friends behind," the soldiers wrote. "This is a moral low point. The Israeli government has abandoned two IDF (Israeli Defense Force) combatants that it sent on a mission."

The petition was being circulated Friday; it was unclear how many soldiers had signed it.

While such sentiments aren't shared by all soldiers, even some senior commanders acknowledge the army came up short in Lebanon.

When soldier Gil Ovadia returned home, his commander made no mention of victory in an address to their battalion. Instead, the commander told them the war was over, said they did a good job, and advised that they be prepared to come back soon and fight again.

"We'll be back in Lebanon in a few months, maybe years," Ovadia said.

news.yahoo.com
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