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Politics : Israel to U.S. : Now Deal with Syria and Iran

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To: sea_urchin who wrote (12916)10/16/2006 9:33:45 PM
From: Cyprian  Read Replies (1) of 22250
 
So for a short answer to your question, I have no problem going to a Russian Orthodox Church, a Greek Orthodox Church, a Serbian Orthodox Church, a Palestinian Orthodox Church, or an American Orthodox Church where the Divine liturgy is conducted in English.

The only thing that is important is that the Church is Orthodox. I will not pray or worship in a Church that is not Orthodox, period. Even if they call themselves Orthodox. There are many churches who make a pretense of being Orthodox, but in fact do not hold fast to the traditions handed down by the Apostles.

It is better to pray privately in your home than to gather around a false bishop or to worship in a false church.

Now you will encounter slightly different practices and traditions depending on whether you go to a Russian Orthodox Church or a Greek for instance, but these have nothing to do with the dogmas of the faith.

All Orthodox Christians no matter what country they are from confess the Nicene Creed. It's not optional like in Protestantville where you can simply make up your own definition of the faith to please yourself.

Most Protestants have not even heard of the Seven Ecumenical Councils. How can they adhere to Apostolic traditions they are completely oblivious to?

Roman Catholics are liars, and they will tell you that they too -- as do the Orthodox -- adhere to the Seven Ecumenical Councils, and to tradition.

Most people are too lazy or indifferent to even bother to verify if what they say is true.

But if you genuinely seek the truth, and measure everything they teach versus the writings of the Fathers they claim to honour and uphold, you will see that they engage in deception.

Many if not all the heresies promulgated by the Papists can be refuted directly by the writings of the very fathers they claim as "doctors" of the Church.

Take for instance the heretical doctrine of the so-called "Immaculate Conception" of Mary. St. Augustine openly rejects this in his writings.

St. Augustine is upheld as one of the greatest doctors of the Roman Catholics.

Truly he is an Orthodox saint, not a Roman Catholic saint, no matter what they say. Likewise for St. Patrick. St. Patrick is an Orthodox saint, and not a Roman Catholic saint.

St. Gregory the Great, who was Pope of Rome at the end of the 6th century, as in the case of Blessed Augustine is also held in very high esteem by the Papists, harshly condemned the notion that the Church was subject to a single primate or bishop.

That is what Papism is. The idea that the Pope is the vicar of Christ on earth and that every member of the Church must be subject to him.

Nonsense. Christ's Church has always been conciliar. There is no universal head or Pope on earth that determines the Faith according to his whims.

There is a universal head to the Church however, and that is Christ Himself.

Now, I am not saying that there is not a hierarchical structure to Christ's Church. There most certainly is.

Most everything in Protestantism is simply an irrational reaction to Papism.

A common mantra you hear from Protestants is, "I don't have to follow the Pope! Who is he to decide what the whole Church has to believe?"

In that sense they are correct. But their solution is just as irrational as Papism. Their solution is to become their own personal Pope, each man deciding whatever suits his own fancy, making up his own idea of religion.

More nonsense, which you will never find support for in the Scriptures.

The Orthodox Church is hierarchical because that is the way Christ established His Church. Who are we to question how Christ setup His Church?

All you have to do is read the New Testament and you will see that there are the offices of bishops, presbyters, and deacons.

Most evangelical or so-called non-denominational churches don't even have bishops and priests. Why are these offices established in the Church and testified to in the New Testament and why does St. Paul describe the qualifications for these offices if they are not to be part of Christ's Church?

All Orthodox Christians are called to be subject unto their elders, including the priests, bishops, and deacons.

However, this is not the same as Papism. Orthodox Christians have an obligation to FLEE their bishop if he (there is no she) preaches heresy. All the holy fathers of the Church taught this, including the holy Apostles.

I am not talking about personal sins mind you. We are all great sinners. Orthodox Christians are not to be overly-concerned with the shortcomings and personal sins of their hierarchs.

Orthodox Christians ARE supposed to be greatly concerned about the doctrines of the Faith.

Heresy is not the same as sin. Sin is transgression of the law. Heresy is defiance against the teachings of the Church. In other words trying to alter the law. Obviously many Orthodox Christians most certainly including myself sin out of ignorance of the teachings of the Church.

But if you are aware of an accepted teaching of the Church and you openly preach against it you are committing an act of heresy. If you simply don't accept or wish to innovate and place your judgment against the teachings of the Church you are in heresy.

This is why Protestantism is so popular in America. We Americans are selfish. Not much is required of you to be a Protestant. After all, if you listen to the lies of the Protestants you don't need any works to be saved, you just need to draw nigh to God with your lips and say that you have faith.

Once saved always saved if you listen to the lies of the Protestants. You can't ever lose salvation, all you had to do was have faith for a split second in time and accept Christ for a brief moment and then it doesn't matter what you do.

That is why Protestants always talk about I was saved on such and such a day and date. They boast about how they are saved. Everything is all neatly wrapped up in a box for them.

Well, with that attitude what is the incentive to strive to please God? After all you can't lose your salvation, so what is the point of going to so much effort?

Orthodoxy requires obedience. It is not like Protestantism which is do-it-yourself Christianity. Orthodox Christians must make sacrifices and endure hardships.

However, Orthodox are never to be obedient to heresy. If a bishop in the Orthodox Church openly preaches heresy he should be corrected and if he willfully refuses to conform to the teachings of the Holy Church then he ought to be plucked out.

It's even in the canons of the Church that we are worthy of great honor for fleeing bishops in heresy. Orthodox Christians are under no obligation to follow bishops whose teachings openly oppose the Church.

The 15th Canon of the First and Second Council under St. Photios the Great sets forth:

If any presbyter or bishop or metropolitan dares to secede from communion with his own patriarch and does not mention his name as is ordered and appointed in the divine mystagogy, but before a synodical arraignment and his [the patriarch’s] full condemnation, he creates a schism, the Holy Synod has decreed that this person be alienated from every priestly function, if only he be proven to have transgressed in this. These rules, therefore, have been sealed and ordered concerning those who on the pretext of some accusations against their own presidents [i.e., prelates] stand apart, creating a schism and severing the unity of the Church. But as for those who on account of some heresy condemned by Holy Synods or Fathers sever themselves from communion with their president, that is, because he publicly preaches heresy and with bared head teaches it in the Church, such persons as these not only are not subject to canonical penalty for walling themselves off from communion with the so-called bishop before synodical clarification, but they shall be deemed worthy of due honor among the Orthodox. For not bishops, but false bishops and false teachers have they condemned, and they have not fragmented the Church’s unity with schism, but from schisms and divisions have they earnestly sought to deliver the Church.
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