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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated

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To: Maurice Winn who wrote (190998)12/30/2006 2:00:23 AM
From: KLP  Read Replies (1) of 793955
 
Well, Mq...First of all, to lighten things up a bit....

"women already do work for no pay" -- Did you ever see the sign that says "A Woman's place is in the home, and she should go there directly after she gets off work"....???

At home, she has a full 8 hour evening and night of "unpaid" 2nd job work for the family....laundry, cooking, cleaning, etc etc etc.

And second, you are quite wrong here...
Nor, I bet, do you spend your days helping other people for no pay.

You have no idea of the things I do several days a week for individuals and groups....without charge, I might add.

But, I will say, a pacifist, IMO, lives his/her entire life that way. He/she doesn't live it conveniently when a dispute or war comes along.

I found this to be interesting....if you read it, you might too...

Main Entry: pac·i·fism
Pronunciation: 'pa-s&-"fi-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: French pacifisme, from pacifique pacific
1 : opposition to war or violence as a means of settling disputes; specifically : refusal to bear arms on moral or religious grounds
2 : an attitude or policy of nonresistance
- pac·i·fist /-fist/ noun

m-w.com

8888888

And this:

Wars are precipitated by motives
which the statesman responsible for them
dare not publicly avow. A public discussion
would drag these motives in their nudity
into the open, where they would die of exposure
to the withering contempt of humanity.
David Lloyd George

Unfortunately, the same can be said
of most self-proclaimed pacifists.
Human behavior is seldom only about
what the person is saying it is.
Marc MacYoung

Self defense or no?

On this page:
Nature of pacifism | Violence | Psychology of violence | Psychology of victimhood | Pacifism or self-defense? | Personal responsibility | Defining self

The decision whether or not to use physical force is not to be taken lightly. There are long term psychological, legal, moral and ethical ramifications of either decision. Before you can make an informed choice as to whether or not you are willing to participate in "self-defense" or opt for a more pacifistic approach, you must understand all the factors involved. Then you can make an informed decision instead of an ineffective -- and dangerous -- compromise.

First, you must understand the difference between self-defense and fighting. Second, you must understand the nature of pacifism. Third, and even more important, you must understand what violence is and how personal interpretation can blind you to the significance of your actions and those of others. It is this "blindspot" that will put you at greater risk from violence more than any other factor. Fourth, you must consider what you stand to gain or lose by your decision. Fifth, you must consider the impact of your decision on yourself and those you love.

In short, the decision isn't just about you are comfortable with. It is about what you believe, what you do, how you define yourself, how you want to go about life and it's about the effects of your decision on other people too.



Nature of pacifism
We have a dear and devout friend by the name of Danny Young, who eloquently responded to a claim of pacifism by his ex-wife with the following words

"You're not a pacifist, you're just afraid of physical violence."

In order to truly understand the significance of that statement, one must first understand both the term pacifist, pacifism and their root term pacific. As defined by Random House Unabridged Edition

Pacific: adj 1) tending to make peace; conciliatory 2) not warlike; peaceable; mild 3) at peace; peaceful 4) calm; tranquil 5) pertaining to the pacific ocean etc., etc..
Pacifism: Brit .pacifism [pacific + ism] -pacifistic
Pacifism: n. 1) opposition to war or violence of any kind 2) the principle or policy of establishing and maintaining universal peace or such relations among all nations that all differences may be adjusted without recourse to war 3) nonresistance to aggression
Pacifist: n. 1) a person who believes in pacifism or who is opposed to war or violence of any kind (emphasis ours). 2) A man whose personal belief in pacifism causes him to refuse being drafted into military service. 3) A person who refuses to resist violence or aggression.

In short, pacifism is not only about being against violence, it also is about being non-violent. When considered with the definition of violence given below (click down, and return) the implications of Mr. Young's statement should bring you up short. Pacifism is not about being "verbally/emotionally violent" and then hiding behind a definition.

Being pacifistic means that you do not engage in any kind of violence yourself. Most self-proclaimed pacifists are anything but pacific. It is very easy to be extremely violent without ever being physical about it. Pacifism is not, as many self-proclaimed pacifists do, screaming vitriolic anger at people and then claiming you are non-violent because you didn't strike anybody. If you think this is an exaggeration, look at photos and examine the faces of people who are engaged in "peace protests," or better yet, watch their actions and behaviors on film when they are confronting someone. They are many things, but non-violent is not one of them.

People who engage in violence without ever "stooping" to physical violence are not being pacifistic. In order to get their way, they are trying to control the degree of violence in which they participate.

To be a pacifist, you must be peaceful. And that means you don't use violence to get what you want. To be peaceful you strive for calm and tranquility; within in your mind, within your spirit, within your emotions and attitudes, within your words and within your behavior. You must project peace, not violence.

It is odd, but a "truly" pacific person will be safe around violent individuals. It is a litmus test for true non-violence. A peaceful person will literally cause a violent person to "relax." Such a person can safely pass through the toughest of neighborhoods and deal with the most violent people without danger (except on rare occasions involving someone who is so severely mentally disturbed, disturbed that we are talking institutionalization ). The reason for this "safety" -- and the reason it is so important to realize the difference between true pacifism and just claiming that you are a pacifist -- is simple.

Violence attracts violence.

The violence within you will be seen by violent people. If you are a "false" pacifist you will still attract violent people. People who are not afraid to use violence to get what they want will both be attracted to you and want to fight with you. Often this will be similar levels of violence, sometimes, however, it will be more extreme. Unfortunately, once you have "broadcast" the message, you cannot control who answers it.



Violence
As many people have a personally convenient definition of pacifist, so do they have a similarly convenient definition of violence and violent behavior. Again using the Random House unabridged edition

Violence: n 1) swift and intense force. 2) rough or injurious physical force, action or treatment. 3) an unjust or unwarranted exertion of force or power, as against rights, laws, etc. 4) a violent act or proceeding. 5) rough or immoderate vehemence as of feeling or language. 6) injury, as from distortion of meaning or fact.
Violent: adj 1) acting with or characterized by uncontrolled, strong, rough force 2) acting with or characterized by, or caused by, injurious or destructive force 3) intense in force, effect; severe, extreme. 4) roughly or immoderately vehement or ardent 5) furious in impetuosity, energy, etc. 6) of pertaining to, or constituting a distortion of meaning or fact.
(return to pacifism)

As you can see these are very inconvenient definitions of violent and violence. Pay special attention to the third, fifth and sixth meanings of violence as well as the third through sixth meanings of violent, because this is how someone can be extremely violent without ever using physical force.

Have you ever encountered someone who just "went off" over a small issue? They raise their voice, become hostile and confrontational over a small, isolated incident or point? They become insulting, demeaning, contemptuous or just plain mean to the source of their irritation. This is often built on a foundation of self-righteousness over a perceived wrong. The hypothetical example we use is someone becoming loud and aggressive because a store clerk shorted that person a quarter in change. It's only a quarter, such an extreme reaction is both an unwarranted and unjust use of force.

Such a person is being violent.

In truth, any perceived wrong, slight or mistake will do as an excuse for such people to vent their hostility. However, if you mention this fact to these kind of people they will swear on stacks of bibles they are not being violent. And, in their mind they are not, in their minds they are using appropriate levels of force to defend themselves against the attacks they suffer from an unjust world. Although far less extreme, this is the same selfish, self-justifying , rationalization process that violent criminals and rapists use.

Unfortunately, with both pacifism and violence, you will discover the definitions most people hold are more convenient than accurate. Convenient in that said definitions allow that person to do what he wants and/or profits him. From that perspective, whatever benefits them is okay. Whatever goes beyond that isn't. If you look around you will find many examples of this kind of self-serving logic and rationalization to justify actions. Never underestimate people's ability to rationalize their own behavior. And that includes you too.


Cont'd at link below....

nononsenseselfdefense.com
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