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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group

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To: cnyndwllr who wrote (218450)	2/14/2007 2:55:50 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (2) of 281500

"What have the last 4 years taught us about America's ability to "change" Iraq into the Iraq you say you'd like to see emerge from this adventure?" I can only speak for myself and what I think 'WE' should have learned in the past 4 years. If any good (Elimination of oppression by one/group unto others) is to come from this venture it must be owned by Iraqis or it wont happen. We should have gotten that by now. "What do you think further American involvement, further deaths of American soldiers, and further deaths of Iraqis AT THE HANDS OF OUR SOLDIERS will accomplish to further our interests?" You and I have already discussed the futility of death counts with regards to change. Death count is likely to sky rocket with any diminishing American involvement. Our continued involvement will also likely result in death counts higher than they have been. It is a contradiction, in most cases, to suggest that a war effort is initiated with the expectation of fewer deaths than would otherwise be the case. Regarding our interests, there is no clarity between you and I on what our interests are; so that aspect of the question needs more definition. The unloaded part of this question is what do I think, or hope, could be accomplished by our continued involvement. I hope that we could rest at the end of our involvement knowing that our involvement has not resulted in one/group having the power to brutally oppress others. "And, finally, although I note you threw your hands up and said you didn't know what was going on in Iraq because you didn't believe the press and you didn't believe the military, if the press reports were proven to be reasonably accurate would you then say that the Iraqis have now demonstrated that they will not be guided by us toward our view of "victory?" Ed What would you consider to be a valid source of information to determine a consensus of opinion from Iraqis, given that the press presents oppositional views that can generally be validated depending upon the source providing the information. I don't know what our view of "victory" means. Victory in general means the defeat of something else. Defeating the Iraqis is clearly not our goal. If you could clarify what that defeat is, I might be able to respond with an opinion.

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