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Politics : Actual left/right wing discussion

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To: Hawkmoon who wrote (6484)	5/21/2007 1:01:11 AM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (1) of 10087

Hawkmoon, re: "I personally define torture as procedure that DOES NOT have the express intent of safeguarding the lives of innocent non-combatants, or preventing the adversary from committing a flagrant and deliberate violation of the Geneva Conventions. In other words, if detainees are being physically abused for punitive purposes (punishment) then it's torture. But if those people are reasonably suspected of being part of a group deliberately plotting to commit a terrorist act in violation of the GC, and are suspected of having information that would thwart such a violation, then IMO, we have a HIGHER moral obligation of using whatever means necessary to defend the intended victims than we do in defending the rights of the plotter/perpetrator." Forgetting for a moment the big picture questions of whether torture works and what it does for the country in the long run, maybe you'd like to tell me who you'd like to apply the test for "torture" that you propose? Is it the torture guild? You know the sadistic bastards that can actually live with (and probably enjoy) the up close and personal acts of brutality that force the POSSIBLE bad guys to blurt out whatever it is that they think you want to hear? I ask because in most similar situations those in charge stay as far away from it as they can and simply rubber stamp the "recommendations" of the hands-on guys. Maybe it will get so loose that eventually it will be you being aggressively "questioned" by a government torturer with a slightly different viewpoint than the extreme viewpoint you now hold. You can find extreme examples with built in assumptions that don't match the real world but once started these things never stay under control. It's just a terrible idea on many levels. If you want a better world for all of us then you have to rise above expediency and act with principle according to ethical and moral rules. It will cost you on rare occasions short term but in the long run it's the only way up. And the world is watching what we do. Ed

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