for ease of future discussion, would you accept this site iraqbodycount.org as factual, if not, then provide a site
I'm not sure its factual, but I don't see any reason to think its a strong over estimate. I wouldn't object to their numbers.
by factual, i take it that you do not dispute that
(i) you are a enthusiastic supporter of war against and in iraq
(ii) your soldiers are invaders
(iii) they are commiting war crimes
(iv) innocent women, children and everybody else are dying, in numbers larger than before the invasion
i - I wouldn't say I'm enthusiastic about it, but I see progress being made, and I think pulling out would be worse than continuing the effort at this time
ii - The US did invade Iraq. At this point they aren't invadeing any more, nor are they occupying Iraq as part of some American conquest. Instead they are supporting the democratically elected government of Iraq.
iii - Any decent sized army, deployed in a war zone for a reasonable length of time, is going to have some soldiers commit war crimes. So yes American soldiers have commited war crimes in Iraq. That doesn't mean war crimes by American soldiers are common, or are accepted, or are typical of the way American soldiers act.
iv - Probably true. The reasons why its not certainly true are
1 - Saddam's regime killed a lot of innocent Iraqis. Also economic conditions caused by the sanctions caused problems in Iraq. The harm and death from the sanctions was probably vastly overestimated by many of the opponents of sanctions, but just because something is overestimated doesn't mean its a complete non-issue.
2 - The exact number of deaths, before, during, and after the invasion, violent or nonviolent, is unknown.
I would also add that the current war will end at some point. Deaths have already declined (hopefully and quite possibly in a durable way, but I admit you can't count on that yet). OTOH a Baathist regime could have gone on for decades, and the sanctions would have either continued, or failed. If they continued than the additional harm they caused would continue. If they failed than eventually Iraqi WMD programs would have been a more realistic issued to be worried about. |
