TJ,
<<Well that makes two of us because I don’t have one either>>
well, gee, and i thought you had a solution involving granting the dalai lama a country of his own that never existed. if no, fine. if yes, then why not give everyone a country of their own?
In previous posts I have said:
#34342 - “No, not trying to make a country out of Tibet”
#34397 - “Never claimed that it was or wasn’t part of China. I haven’t delved deeply enough into the murky history of that subject to speak on it with any sense of certainty.”
I have never mentioned or discussed giving the Dalai Lama a country of his own. Please stop trying to put words in my mouth.
then we can move on to the merits of the dalai lama's clam, and find that denying his claim of a country of own is as good as but no worse than denying the american indians their native land, all of it.
Please refer to my comments above. Also refer to the following which were contained in my previous post #34342.
"A Tibetan should be a citizen of the People's Republic of China. I mean, a happy citizen of the People's Republic of China. I always feel remaining separate, weak, poor. Instead of that, join thousands of millions of people. Prosperity, dignity. Much better." (Dalai Lama, Seattle,4/13/08)
"We are willing to be part of the People's Republic of China," the Dalai Lama told the South China Morning Post in Hong Kong, "to have it govern and guarantee to preserve our Tibetan
culture, spirituality and environment." (Dalai Lama, South China Morning Post, 2005)
It seems the Dalai Lama doesn’t want his own country either.
<<So you have all the facts?>>
probably more than you care to admit, and in any case, irrelevant, because i merely need to know you do not recognize all the facts.
And your sources for the admittedly incomplete facts that you do have are what?
<<Maybe someone should ask the Tibetans about their notions and dreams>>
... which tibetans?
The 5 to 6 million living in Tibet.
why not the israelis and palestinians? now come, stop fidgeting and shimmying, where are you on the issues far more urgent than tibet, and in which you have a potentially more effective say in influencing outcome?
As I’ve said before, your continuing effort to divert the discussion to other areas is a shimmy away from the topic of discussion. I’m not going down that road so you might as well stop.
And yes, things like Israel/Palestinians are more front & center on the world stage, However, these groups get a lot of military and monetary support from many sources and have extensive public relations & diplomatic efforts to tout their causes. The Tibetans don’t have anywhere near these resources, aren’t really that important politically, are in a remote part of the globe and therefore are often “out-of-sight, out-of-mind”. So in some sense their situation is “urgent” in that its important to shine a light on what's gone on there and not have it get lost in all the other world crises.
<<Never claimed that it was or wasn’t part of China>>
You chimed in try to ring some bells, and it is reasonable to figure that you believe whatever the dalai lama believers wish to accomplish as opposed to what the daila lama claim to recognize, unless we are to count on you being naive.
You gotta stop trying to tell me what I believe. And there’s that word “naive” again - I gotta tell you TJ it’s getting kind of old at this point.
<<Then fixed? By the “great helmsman’s army? By the red guards? By the public security bureau? Fixed?>>
in a manner of speaking, because cult-based serfdom is obviously no more in tibet. do you deny the truth?
No, you are correct - the cult-based serfdom no longer exists. But at the cost of:
500,000 to 1 million dead, tens & tens of thousands imprisoned to be worked, tortured or starved to death in gulags, tamzing sessions, rape, 5,000+ monasteries destroyed, priceless, irreplaceable 1,000 year old Buddhist art, sculpture and texts destroyed, thousands forced into “re-education centers”, thousands of refugees forced to escape from their own land at the risk of being shot or imprisoned, children taken from their families and sent to China for “re-education” and on and on and on.
These are some of the facts you’re always referring to.
So how about it TJ - was it all worth it?
i am guessing we are not going to get an answer out of you on either israel being threatened with extinction or palestine facing genocide (as you applied that term to tibet, i am not figuring you think what is happening in gaza is less genocidal than tibet, correct?), correct? thought so ;0)
Your attempt to classify Gaza as more or less genocidal is meaningless. The amount of misery, suffering and indignity the average Gazan has undergone for decades is awful.
i am also guessing you have no genuine intent to vacate n.america. it is safe to guess that you are not advocating the return of california to the mexicans, yes? or no? or no comment?
As I said in post #34342 - “Not going anywhere, I kind of like it here in the USA”. As to the Mexicans ...etc, you gotta stop rehashing this issue over & over again. I’m not advocating that China get out of Tibet and not claiming whether Tibet was/is a country. Enough already.
in any and all cases, given there are only so many ways you can go with the above stated hints of points, and given that you refuse to engage on them, choosing to focus on the manufactured issue that is tibet,
1. I have engaged on many of the issues raised by you in your posts. You may not like my responses or think they are satisfactory - so be it. I believe I have responded with more spot-on comments than you by far. You, on the other hand, seem to ignore many of my comments and just re-hash the same old tired points again & again, many of which have already been discussed or answered.
2. So you think Tibet is a “manufactured” issue. Please refer to my comment a few paragraphs above about the real cost of eliminating “serfdom” in Tibet. All that is “manufactured”?
we can apply the term h.y.p.o.c.r.i.t.e. to you with quite a measure of safety.
In every post you have labeled me something - naive, hypocrite, evil, unschooled, scoundrel, believer in fairy tales. Tactics such as this can sometimes be taken as a sign of weakness in one’s position. Also, by continually placing these negative labels on me, you seem to be trying to influence the opinion of those other SI’ers who are reading my posts.
In closing, as I’ve said before, let’s just agree to disagree. This conversation has basically run it’s course. I’m sure a lot of SI’ers following our posts would agree.
Unlike you, I won’t end this by labeling you with some derisive name or term but I will say, with quite a measure of safety, that you have let the opportunity to make your point slip away.
Sayonara |
