MSB, I don't think pagans could really be considered the same as atheists. Paganism is a religion, which holds that it is nature which is powerful, and which reveres the sun, moon and stars, the earth and the oceans, the seasons and sometimes nature gods and goddesses. Atheism holds other beliefs. Perhaps Del, who is an atheist, could better explain the difference.
I already expressed my feeling that any belief system that is comforting is in a way positive. In that sense, I also believe it is less than well-mannered to attack others' beliefs in the spirit of trying to destroy them, which is nothing but hurtful. I do feel comfortable discussing religions in their historical contexts. If you want to talk about manners, I do believe it is unmannerly for the Christians to have tried to convert millions of pagans all over the world to their belief system, by force if necessary. Christians missionaries are still attempting to do this!!
Chief Seattle said "The land does not belong to us; we belong to the land." This quote serves well to differentiate between pagan and Christian beliefs. Pagans believe we are the stewards of the environment, passing down the wealth of nature to the next generation. When the Christians came to America, they conquered the land by force, "In the name of God." If you look at American history after the Europeans came, this is a very common historical phrase, and their justification for much of their bad behavior.
In Ireland in the second and third centuries, women had equal rights, could own property and businesses, and could divorce just by declaring so on a certain day of the year. When the Christians came, women lost most of their rights, since Christianity is a religion of male dominance. In fact, as Catholicism was sweeping across Europe in the late Middle Ages, priests urged men during Mass to beat their women to control them. Pagan Europe had been much more egalitarian, as men and women were needed to plant and harvest crops. Women had been the healers and doctors, and one interesting fact about this is that women being doctors was made illegal when the Church came in. A lot of this has to do with men subconsciously being frightened by the power of women in my opinion, but after the Christians came many women were burned at the stake, by some estimates as many as nine million of them. No, they were not witches, not in the evil context by which Christianity viewed witchcraft. Women simply were in tune with nature, which made them powerful, and therefore vulnerable to men who needed to dominate.
Christian churches in Europe stole much of the wealth, its gold and art, all of the riches they pillaged from the New World, and took the spirits of the poor, justifying poverty since the promised goodies were all in eternal life, not in this one. Certainly in Ireland during the Potato Famine which started in 1945, over a million Irish starved to death, and not one priest died. If you study European history you will see that not just in the Crusades, but in the entire course of history, Christianity has played a huge role in violence and death.
The Vatican recently apologized for the role of the Church in France in complicity with the Nazis in World War II. This caused the deaths of a lot of Jews, for sure. I think I should probably just tape my fingers together and leave the keyboard for the day before I say something really inflammatory, but I just don't believe that everything negative and divisive about Christianity as a powerful force (not as a personal belief system) can be squelched in a display of polite manners. Certainly the concept of loving your neighbor as yourself was not played out in the reality of "Christian" behavior.
I think Christ himself was a revolutionary figure in human history, a prophet. I believe that his words and beliefs are antithetical to much of the history of Christianity, and I think he would shudder at the least if he could see how much hurt has been inflicted in his name. I think the Ten Commandments themselves are an ethical way to live, and I don't believe many modern pagans would have any problems with the ones which govern behavior rather than beliefs.
I would be curious to understand why it is necessary to believe life extends beyond what we see and feel right here on earth. Paganism, with its celebration of the power of the moon and stars, the earth and its seas, reveres life, and particularly our loved ones and the joy of every day we are given. How can any church really promise anything beyond this? How do they know? Do you think that perhaps the promise of eternal life could get in the way of enjoying this one fully? Wouldn't that effect be negative rather than positive?
Hey, maybe you should sell or give away (that's a very charitable gesture, incidentally, MSB) your truck, and start over. My own sense is that once your intuitive voice tells you something may have been a mistake, it probably was. I agree with everything you said about the mechanics of a vehicle being of the utmost importance, but also think that it feels good to restore things to their full beauty. It's just fun to drive something that is all shiny and polished, and smiling, if cars and trucks could smile!!!!!! |
