if we are going to require service it is going to require sacrifice is it not? But, whatever, if it produces the citizens we want that is all I really care about it what ever term you choose to apply to service.
I'm struggling a bit now to keep track which is your cart and which is your horse. It sound now like you are enamored of the idea of required service and sacrifice is it's fellow traveler.
I agree that mandatory service would require sacrifice for many if not most, sure. Unlike you, though, I can't find the beauty in that.
We can debate about the form and its manifestations, but do you agree with the principle in general?
I'm not sure which of the various expressions you put forth is "the principle."
If it's that mandatory service will produce the kind of responsible and appreciative citizens we want, I don't think so. It might influence some who are required to serve in that direction but others will be indifferent or even negative. And there are other ways to influence in that direction, ways less costly and/or more tailored to the temperament of the individual so more likely to produce results. It doesn't seem cost effective to me, even if it's effective at all.
Why do you not like the idea of requiring our a nation's citizens to all be equally available to meet its defense needs?
What are you going to do with all those kids that would be productive? The military doesn't need numbers like it did in the days when draftees were cannon fodder. I don't even know where you could put them all. Are we going to build more ships so they can all get a billet?
And do you think they'd all be any good at it? You put a kid who doesn't want to be there or doesn't have what it takes in a squad and he gets the squad killed. Not a lot of people are suited towards that kind of work. Even now lots of volunteers are rejected. You'd waste your skilled troops trying to train these kids. It makes no sense to me.
What makes sense is that we use kids who want to be there and who meet the requirements. If we can't meet enlistment goals you might want to shanghai some but we have enough or nearly enough. And if we had fewer wars, we'd have more than enough. Vinter, I just don't see the point of make-work projects for all the kids in the country.
As for the equality element you introduced, sure, if there is to be broad sacrifice, there should be equality. But since I don't expect sacrifice other than in dire and unusual circumstances, the equality of it is moot.
And surely all that money could be better spent.
Why is it OK to entice people to die for the country through the use of economic incentives?
I don't think it's OK to entice anyone to die for the country through any means.
(Would Abu Ghraib have had happened with college educated draftees serving?)
You never heard of the Stanford prison experiment?
Acts as a check on the political class? Would the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts have happened if there was a draft?
Now, there's a benefit I can appreciate. OTOH, if that worked and there were no wars, we'd have even less use for all these kids.
Fosters citizen unification
I see the benefit in that but it's mostly nostalgic. It was the bi-product of something that was once necessary. It wasn't the goal. When you get rid of the necessity, the bi-product is lost, too. Sad, maybe, but inevitable.
Alright, what are the "tools" you would use to get the citizens we both desire?
The venues we have now for shaping citizenship are families, schools, civic organizations, churches, politics, media, the law... The first order of business is to change the message and we can send a different message via our extant institutions. You mentioned upstream the attitude of entitlement. One place kids get that is from politicians who pitch it to voters. We can stop doing that. We can change laws that encourage it. We can change the social studies curriculum. Schools already encourage volunteerism. Maybe that program needs beefing up. (And we can send more "delinquents" to boot camp.) Maybe, too, we need to send different messages to parents. Use public service announcements. Or Oprah. Some TV dramas with the message. Enlist some rap artists. There are lots of ways to change the message if we want to. It takes leadership, the will, and a coordinated effort.
(Would Abu Ghraib have had happened with college educated draftees serving?)
You never heard of the Stanford prison experiment?
Acts as a check on the political class? Would the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts have happened if there was a draft?
Now, there's a benefit I can appreciate. OTOH, if that worked and there were no wars, we'd have even less use for all these kids. |
