Amazing how he answers meaningless questions and ignores all the ones that really matter. Still waiting for answers on the unprofitable tape business, the media credits, the $22 million in assets on the books, why p2o hasn't been running commercially, when is the next PIPE? These are the questions that need to be answered for JBII to get anywhere.
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Posted by: jjsmith Date: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 6:08:50 PM
In reply to: rowgr who wrote msg# 37510 Post # of 37614
Amazing how he answers meaningless questions and ignores all the ones that really matter. Still waiting for answers on the unprofitable tape business, the media credits, the $22 million in assets on the books, why p2o hasn't been running commercially, when is the next PIPE? These are the questions that need to be answered for JBII to get anywhere.
Quote:
More from John B: (positive net energy balance)
JG:
John,
There is a lot of talk on the boards about what is meant by this statement: "The energy balance of the process is positive; that is, more energy value is produced than is consumed by the process. Early data suggests that it is by as much as a factor of two."
I am seeing comments like: "Energy value in this case is barrels produced. Their statement says that the energy factor is "as much as two" which means for every 2 barrels created you have to consume 1 barrel. That means 50% of the feedstock is consumed in the process. Their previous claim was 15%."... See More
Please let me know if the following explanation I provided is correct:
Energy Value: "Energy Value is the heat of combustion of a fuel given per gram of fuel. The higher the energy value, the more energy is released, the better the fuel."
From the IsleChem report: "The energy balance of the process is positive; that is, more energy value is produced than is consumed by the process. Early data suggests that it is by as much as a factor of two."
John Bordynuik emphasized this: "Our process has a high positive energy balance of 2.0 while gasoline from crude has a negative energy balance of 0.81."
It takes 340 lbs. of plastic to produce 1 barrel of oil using the P2O process. That 340 lbs. of plastic has an initial energy value, usually expressed in Joules per unit of weight (see the definition above). The barrel of oil produced has its own energy value. Another way of talking about energy value is the amount of heat that can be produced from the potential energy in the fuel being burned.
IsleChem is saying that the energy value of the plastic is about 1/2 that of the oil produced by the process. This is separate from the cost required to go from the plastic to the oil, which John Bordynuik has stated is around $10 per barrel.
A barrel of gasoline has a smaller energy value than the crude oil that it started from. But we don't burn crude oil in our cars, so we need to process it. There is a cost to the process that is separate from the starting and ending energy values. If it cost more to convert the crude to gasoline than the value of the gasoline produced, do you think there would be a business model that makes sense to do that? Clearly there would not be. The oil companies are making lots of money.
Do not confuse energy value with process cost.
John Bordynuik
Hi J. A "positive net energy balance" does NOT mean we consume 1 barrel for every two we produce. I was going to explain what is scientifically meant by "the positive net energy balance" yesterday but I believed some fools would actually think either: "perpetual motion" or "2 at the high cost of 1 barrel" which would then give skeptics and ... See Moreinvestors an idea of who really knows what they are talking about and those that don't. The energy conversion of our process shocked islechem actually. If our net energy balance was highly negative then it would not be worth processing plastic (like our competitors). Our process consumes approx. 4000 BTU of heat (off gas) to convert 1kg of plastic into approx. (0.9046kg) 44,000 BTU of fuel. The positive net energy balance means we get twice the energy out of the fuel than we get in the combination of: (energy in the plastic feedstock plus energy used to convert to fuel). This is independent of the price/barrel because in most cases we get the source energy (that is feedstock) for nothing or paid to accept (tip fee).Therefore, we are not paying for that energy. The off-gas comes from the feedstock. We actually have a surplus of natural gas so we will pipe it to a generator.
BTW: The $10 cost/barrel is the result of our P2O FL management team heavily loading up costs on the overhead side (building, staff, utils, maintenance, legal, permitting, capital costs, etc..) +and cutting production in half. We are proceeding conservatively to provide JV's achievable numbers.
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