“I notice when you get to dislikin’ someone they ain’t around for long neither.”
Interesting comments on that Woods of Smolensk Richard Fernandez essay - I find his comment threads to be worthwhile glancing over. I usually don't go in for conspiracy mongering but this one is just staring the world in the face. Yes I think the Russian intelligence/military did a mini-Katyn:
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Kevin
The fact that Putin is heading up the investigation will only make it look to a lot of people like a whitewash.
If the perception takes hold that the current Russian government is only going through the motions of pretending to be civilized while behaving like gangsters, what will be the effect on its relations with the rest of the world, particularly the West? Will Obama care? And if it wasn’t an accident, and Polish foreign policy will not change now, then what was the objective? Sheer intimidation? And if so, why now?
April 10, 2010 - 4:57 am Link to this Comment
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Roland THTG
“I notice when you get to dislikin’ someone they ain’t around for long neither.”
April 10, 2010 - 5:05 am Link to this Comment
dan
Wow. A mini-Katyn on the way to a Katyn memorial.
According to the flight manifest onboard were among others:
* Lech Kaczyñski, the President of Poland
* Maria Kaczyñska, the first lady
* Ryszard Kaczorowski, the last President of the Polish government-in-exile
* Jerzy Szmajdziñski, Deputy Speaker of the Sejm
* W³adys³aw Stasiak, Chief of the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
* Aleksander Szczyg³o, head of the National Security Bureau
* Pawe³ Wypych, Secretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
* Mariusz Handzlik, Undersecretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
* Andrzej Kremer, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs
* General Franciszek G¹gor, Chief of the Polish Army General Staff
* Andrzej PrzewoŸnik, Secretary-General of Rada Ochrony Pamiêci Walk i Mêczeñstwa
* Grzegorz Dolniak, member of the Sejm
* Przemys³aw Gosiewski, member of the Sejm
* Zbigniew Wassermann, member of the Sejm
* Janusz Kochanowski, Polish Ombudsman
* S³awomir Skrzypek, President of the National Bank of Poland
* Janusz Kurtyka, Historian and president of the Institute of National Remembrance
* Tadeusz P³oski, Bishop of the Military Ordinariate of the Polish Army
* Izabela Jaruga-Nowacka, member of the Sejm
* Jolanta Szymanek-Deresz, member of the Sejm
* Aleksandra Natalli-Œwiat, member of the Sejm
Gen. Bronislaw Kwiatkowski (Commander Operations)
Gen. Andrew Blasik (Air Force Commander in Chief)
Gen. Tadeusz Buk (Commander of Land Forces)
Gen. Wojciech Potasinski (Commander of Special Forces)
Vice Admiral Andrzej Karweta (Commander in Chief of the Polish Navy)
Gen. Casimir Gilarski (Commander, Training)
April 10, 2010 - 5:31 am Link to this Comment
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ahem
This is quite obviously an outrageous crime. In one stroke, Putin has now beheaded a government that was abandoned by the USAs territories he would like to reclaim for Russia. How could he resist? No one on the face of the earth would stop him. He could either have taken years to destabilize Poland and reconquer it, or do what he has done. It is the move of uthless man–the kind who poisons and murders his opponents.are in greater danger than we can imagine. It is the first fruits of Obama’s horrible foreign policy. What can be next?
May these poor people rest in peace. May we wake up from our own ignorant and complacent torpor.
April 10, 2010 - 7:49 am Link to this Comment
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programmer
Okay,
Putin says he will be at this years commemoration of the massacre. (This insures that all the Polish officials will be there to see such an event).
It would be difficult, but not impossible to arrange things so there was only one flight that was convenient to transport all the Poles to the event.
Blowing up planes in flight is easy, as we all know.
How do you arrange the fog?????
April 10, 2010 - 8:04 am Link to this Comment
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Limpet6
Who is going to say there wasn’t fog? No survivors.
2. The One is not going to jeopardize his agreement with the Russians now, by allowing bad things to be said against our new friends the Russians. The timing is impeccable.
3. Sadly even the Poles were hoodwinked. Are socialist states familiar with the provisions of key man insurance? Oh wonder, the Russians are finally owning up to the Katyn Forest Massacre, Stash. We must celebrate the world is changing, President Obama says so.
4. Setting a bomb off in a low-flying plane won’t get picked up by a camera.
5. What a great lesson pour d’autres in that part of the world.
April 10, 2010 - 8:29 am Link to this Comment
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Greifer
Frankly, Putin's name on the investigation looks more like a badge of advertisement they did it than merely “suspicious”. They want it believed that they were responsible.
[ Right, they WANT people to know they took out the Polish leadership. Everyone in the former Soviet sphere of influence got the message. ]
April 10, 2010 - 8:33 am Link to this Comment
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Augetter
All of the landing systems can be dithered ( interfered with). GPS can be jammed locally with a low powered transmitter, barometric pressure can be misstated by the tower, ILS systems can be distorted in any number of ways. You don’t need a bomb, which would leave various traces. You don’t need a sucidial pilot, you just need a small set of techs who have knowledge and Bobs your uncle, one crashed Tu-154. No fuss, no muss, just one more tragic accident. I’m so sorry Uncle Albert.
April 10, 2010 - 8:52 am Link to this Comment
PA Cat
#13 Sobieski
Dear Sobieski,
Those of us who were fortunate enough to be taught American history B.P.C. (before political correctness) will not forget Casimir Pulaski (1745-1779), a Polish nobleman who came to America to fight in the Continental Army during the Revolution. Washington promoted him to brigadier general of the American cavalry. After Pulaski died following the battle of Savannah in 1779, Washington issued a challenge-and-response set of passwords for November 1779 to identify soldiers crossing military lines: Query: Pulaski. Response: Poland.
en.wikipedia.org
My sincere condolences to you also.
April 10, 2010 - 9:02 am Link to this Comment
Sobieski
@#34 PA Cat – While I am unfortunate enough to have been schooled (and I use that term loosely since I attended a public school) A.P.C., I am familiar with Pulaski. Another interesting Polish patriot which fought in the American Revolution is Kosciuszko, who was head engineer of the Continental Army and good friends with Thomas Jefferson.
His bio on wikipedia is quite interesting:
en.wikipedia.org
@36 programmer – I am definitely familiar with GROM
Poland and the U.S. have a long history of friendship.
I appreciate the condolences.
April 10, 2010 - 9:47 am Link to this Comment
Habu
Looking down the comments I am astonished ,absolutely astonished at the number of contributors who are more than willing to believe that this was simply an accident.
Don’t any of you remember the Cold War? Are any of you familiar in the least with the atrocities the Soviets have perpetrated against their adversaries?
The naivety expressed is truly sorrowful.
Like,”Lets give Putin and the Soviets the benefit of the doubt” I guarantee if that thinking gains purchase then we’re bigger suckers than we already appear to be.
April 10, 2010 - 2:37 pm Link to this Comment
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Subotai Bahadur
I realize that the usual suspects will be defending the Russians, and blaming everybody else in the world for it; but I found this comment on another blog that summarizes things wonderfully. From ACE OF SPADES’ thread on the crash:
The Poles just had an entire political faction wiped out while flying a Russian plane in Russia. The crash will be investigated by Russians, headed by Putin. The same Putin whose political adversaries keep coming down with unlucky fatal accidents involving freak circumstances and exotic radioactive isotope poisonings. It happened just after the U.S. sold out Poland and the Czech Republic, and signaled that even attacking the U.S. directly with biological and chemical attacks wouldn’t trigger a WMD response (and if that’s our stance on our own country, imagine what you can do to our allies). Nothing at all suspicious about the incident whatsoever. Just bad luck.
The Czech Republic leadership might want to start carrying lucky rabbits’ feet that aren’t unluckily laced with Polonium-210 or have passive transceivers planted on them. Just sayin’.
If you look at the crash as a unique event, unparalleled in human history; one might make the automatic assumption that any suspicion is mere paranoia by the evil Americans. However, if you look at the documented history of recent actions by the Russians which includes more than a bit of doing things that are “unthinkable”, plus the longer term history between the nations in the area and Russia, plus the personal history of the real ruler of Russia; any automatic assumption of innocence on the part of the Russians becomes irrational. In this case, even if we evil Americans are being paranoid; it is a fact that paranoids have enemies.
Subotai Bahadur
April 10, 2010 - 8:39 pm Link to this Comment
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