WHOA! Just a minute! So you want to limit pederasty to anal penetration?? And I pointed out that it involves all forms of eros between mature men and adolescents--REGARDLESS OF WHETHER SEX OCCURS OR WHAT KIND IT IS!
So who is winning here! You are as dumb as a bag of hammers. LOL!
So you are stating that the majority of Greek relationships between mature men and adolescents were NOT pederastic, then?! That all the pederasts in Sparta (the entire male population) were really NOT PEDERASTS because carnal expression of their "love" through anal penetration was taboo!! Thanks for clarifying that for the rest of us! I say the historians, grammarians, sociologists, and other exerts are right and you are wrong! I say all man-boy love in Greece was pederastic. I say it doesn’t matter where the semen is placed--it is the relationship and the age that counts. I say that you are a flaming pink idiot if you think that most of the Greeks were not pederasts. What a dork!
You really know how to shove both feet in your mouth, don’t you!? Not only do you paint yourself into a corner but you bring your own pointed dunce cap and you carry a sign labelled. “I am gregoree and, I, gregoree, know exactly what it means to be a moron and to F--- myself up the ass!“
Boy--did you ever get stuffed!
READ IT AND WEEP!!
"Pederasty in ancient Greece was a socially acknowledged erotic relationship between an adult male and a younger male usually in his teens.[1] It was characteristic of the Archaic and Classical periods.[2] Some scholars locate its origin in initiation ritual, particularly rites of passage on Crete, where it was associated with entrance into military life and the religion of Zeus.[3]
The social custom called paiderastia by the Greeks was both idealized and criticized in ancient literature and philosophy;[4] it has no formal existence in the Homeric epics, and seems to have developed in the late 7th century BCE as an aspect of Greek homosocial culture,[5] which was characterized also by athletic and artistic nudity, delayed marriage for aristocrats, symposia, and the social seclusion of women.[6] The influence of pederasty was so pervasive that it has been called "the principal cultural model for free relationships between citizens."[7]
Scholars have debated the role or extent of sexual activity, which is likely to have varied according to local custom and individual inclination.[8] The English word "pederasty" in present-day usage might imply the abuse of minors in certain jurisdictions, but Athenian law, for instance, did not recognize consent and age as factors in regulating sexual behavior.[9] As classical historian Robin Osborne has pointed out, historical discussion of paiderastia is complicated by 21st-century moral standards:
It is the historian's job to draw attention to the personal, social, political and indeed moral issues behind the literary and artistic representations of the Greek world. The historian's job is to present pederasty and all, to make sure that … we come face to face with the way the glory that was Greece was part of a world in which many of our own core values find themselves challenged rather than reinforced.[10]
[edit] Terminology
The Greek word paiderastia (pa?de?ast?a) is an abstract noun of feminine gender. It is formed from paiderastês, which in turn is a compound of pais ("child", plural paides) and erastês (see below).[11] Although the word pais can refer to a child of either sex, paiderastia is defined by Liddell and Scott's Greek-English Lexicon as "the love of boys," and the verb paiderasteuein as "to be a lover of boys."[12]
Since the publication of Kenneth Dover's now classic work Greek Homosexuality, erastês and erômenos have been standard terms for the two pederastic roles.[13] Both words derive from the Greek verb erô, erân, "to love"; see also eros. In Dover's strict dichotomy, the erastês (??ast??, plural erastai) is the older lover, seen as the active or dominant partner,[14] with the suffix -tês (-t??) denoting agency.[15] Erastês should be distinguished from Greek paiderastês, which meant "lover of boys" usually with a negative connotation.[16] The erastês himself might only be in his early twenties,[17] and thus the age difference between the two lovers might be negligible.[18]
The word erômenos, or "beloved" (???µe???, plural eromenoi), is the masculine form of the present passive participle from ero, viewed by Dover as the passive or subordinate partner. An erômenos can also be called pais, "child."[19] The pais was regarded as a future citizen, not an "inferior object of sexual gratification," and was portrayed with respect in art.[20] The word can be understood as an endearment such as a parent might use, found also in the poetry of Sappho[21] and a designation of only relative age. Both art and other literary references show that the erômenos was at least a teen, with modern age estimates ranging from 13 to 20, or in some cases up to 30. Most evidence indicates that to be an eligible erômenos, a youth would be of an age when an aristocrat began his formal military training,[22] that is, from fifteen to seventeen.[23] As an indication of physical maturity, the erômenos was sometimes as tall as or taller than the older erastês, and may have his first facial hair.[24] Another word used by the Greeks for the younger partner was paidika, a neuter plural adjective ("things having to do with children") treated syntactically as masculine singular.[19]
Kouros representing an idealized youth, ca. 530 BC
In poetry and philosophical literature, the erômenos is often an embodiment of idealized youth; a related ideal depiction of youth in Archaic culture was the kouros, the long-haired male statuary nude.[25] In The Fragility of Goodness, Martha Nussbaum, following Dover, defines the ideal erômenos as
a beautiful creature without pressing needs of his own. He is aware of his attractiveness, but self-absorbed in his relationship with those who desire him. He will smile sweetly at the admiring lover; he will show appreciation for the other's friendship, advice, and assistance. He will allow the lover to greet him by touching, affectionately, his genitals and his face, while he looks, himself, demurely at the ground. … The inner experience of an erômenos would be characterized, we may imagine, by a feeling of proud self-sufficiency. Though the object of importunate solicitation, he is himself not in need of anything beyond himself. He is unwilling to let himself be explored by the other's needy curiosity, and he has, himself, little curiosity about the other. He is something like a god, or the statue of a god.[26]
Dover insisted that the active role of the erastês and the passivity of the erômenos is a distinction "of the highest importance,"[19] but subsequent scholars have tried to present a more varied picture of the behaviors and values associated with paiderastia. Although ancient Greek writers use erastês and erômenos in a pederastic context, the words are not technical terms for social roles, and can refer to the "lover" and "beloved" in other hetero- and homosexual couples..." |
