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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!!

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To: JF Quinnelly who wrote (14292)12/20/1997 11:24:00 AM
From: Grainne  Read Replies (1) of 108807
 
Okay, Freddy, I guess I have a little to say about the Antonelli article, "Rethinking the Goddess". What I got mostly from it is that the lady is Jewish, and subtly (and at times not so subtly) is laying the blame for the Inquisition on the Catholics, and essentially criticizing Christians at the same time she is laying waste to goddess mythology.

I'm not sure what I think about her ideas. I will have to agree about the Inquisition, though!! I am not a neo-pagan in my own personal beliefs--instinctively moving as far away from anything New Age as possible, although I sense you might find this hard to believe--and something I read on the web this morning, in an English witchcraft newsletter, referring to "clutch a crystal, channel a dolphin" neo-pagans really struck me as amusing. In fact, you might enjoy nosing around this site, as the newsletter author reviews books on paganism and writes interesting articles:

whitedragon.demon.co.uk

I actually think that the study of women's history, HERstory, just to make shivers go quickly up your sensitive, masculine spine--is in a very early stage. Here is a blurb from San Francisco's New College, an accredited college, however, which is somewhat alarming:

Master of Arts in Humanities & Women's Spirituality

New College's NEW Women's Spirituality M.A. is a feminist learning community that reclaims women's history and prehistory, spiritual experience, and ways of knowing. Since women's experience has been omitted from the teachings of most academic disciplines and religions, this innovative new program makes women's experience central in the study of such areas as archaeo-mythology, ecofeminism, art as sacred process, and feminist theory. Our course of study integrates scholarship, spirituality, creative expression and activism. In the tradition of New College, each student participates in a community service praticum of his or her own design, which is intended to enrich her/his research work and model a new spiritually grounded approach to social change.
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I think the problem with programs like this is that unless the archaeological record is taken very seriously, and scholarship prevails over belief systems, no real knowledge is gained. In response to Antonelli's arguments, though, obviously ancient peoples really partied!!! Or, there was an abundance of female AND male fertility symbols, and this does not necessarily mean women were revered and treated wonderfully in the cultures where we see them. I personally think there was a wide variance in the way women were treated, depending not only upon the culture but on the woman's social class as well. There have always been women who were very strong and prevailed, who led men in battle, who ran their own businesses and reared their children without much help from men. It is hard to imagine a society without them, and you can certainly see from The Canturbury Tales that medieval England was a place with a wide variety of female role models.

I also think that each love relationship is different, and that undoubtedly there have always been men who treated their wives wonderfully, even going against the cultural norm. From a developmental perspective, if a male baby is nurtured and loved well by its mother, and does not observe or experience violence in its home, there is simply no impulse which would rear up and result in that grown man beating or mistreating a woman.

Unfortunately, and this is one of my problems with Christianity, in the Bible and from the pulpit a very male-dominated rhetoric is pushed, and one in which spanking children is also seen as the norm.If all these twentieth century witchy women can get some of that erased, and we can move to more harmonious, peaceful domestic relationships, something good will have been accomplished, although neo-paganism is, like Christianity, a BELIEF system. I am bending backwards to be fair and objective here, but I will stop for a moment and wonder why in your mind Christianity is better than this, since it is also simply a belief system, as are all religions. That's a personal question though, something you don't really need to answer unless you feel like it.

Another argument in favor of the neo-pagans is that they are staunch environmentalists. One of their beliefs that I do share is that the earth is the mother, and that if She is not revered and respected and nurtured as She nurtures all of us, there will be hell to pay!!!

I do know that in Ireland women (and men, actually) were better off before Christianity. Celtic cultures include many different old societies, and I cannot speak for many of them because I have not studied them, but in ancient Ireland, on February first of every year, a woman could declare herself divorced, and leave the marriage. Property was split equally, something which is still not being done even in parts of the United States right now. And even though there may be parts of Celtic lore you dispute because there is no written history, if you study the current festivals and traditions of the British Isles, all of them are right under the surface of post-pagan (I like this better than pre-Christian) times. The Puck Fair and the Wren Boys immediately come to mind in Ireland, but there are hundreds of these celebrations and traditions, continually playing out every year. Having attended Celtic festivals, I can also say there is a huge hunger in the American British Isles-descended communities for roots they perceive go further back than Christianity, which obviously lacks answers, or does not resonate, for many. You would be lucky if everyone decided they wanted to explore their Celtic roots and started wearing magical jewelry and listening to Celtic music and dancing. These are very peaceful activities which do not cause war or dominate women!

And I think it might be difficult for you to understand, as a man, the sheer horror the history of the burning times bring out in women, whether we argue that 30,000 or 9,000,000 women were killed. As I recall one of your favorite sources, Rollins I believe, maintains that it was probably 200,000 to 300,000. Whatever!! This is something that HIStorians certainly have not emphasized, and as the neo-pagans bring out the whole story, it has a huge impact. I do hope that what scholarly and accurate women bring to world history is very valuable, and I think this is why I am saddened when belief systems and the band wagon approach make for less than a clear HERstorical record. I think revisionist history always needs to be balanced by an understanding of what the social mores were in a culture, but it does need to be told, because I agree that women and other minorities have gotten short shrift in the record of western civilization.

My daughter is growing up, and is writing a paper on witchcraft in America, and she is pretty horrified at the way women were treated. She is studying history books and primary source materials, NOT learning myth from me, incidentally. This growing awareness in her is something I watch in awe, because it is very powerful in its righteous anger at the historical experience of women. Ditto her feelings about Native Americans as the textbooks have been revised to present a more balanced picture, away from the manifest destiny, barbaric savages oriented pap I read in school so many years ago. I think when women are ruling the world it will be a more supportive, more peaceful and loving place, incidentally, Freddy. I think that, speaking in sweeping generalizations of course, women have much more to offer than has previously been appreciated, neo-pagan or not, and I think men will benefit as well. Now if we can just figure out how to finish snatching away the reins of power from you guys!!!
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