How The World Sees America, with Adam Tooze | The Ezra Klein Show
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Jan 30, 2026 The Ezra Klein Show
The old world order is dying. What new world order — if any — is struggling to be born? I can’t think of a week when it felt clearer that an era was coming to an end. Whatever people thought America was, at least for a couple of decades, it’s something else now. The killing of Alex Pretti and the fact that it was recorded on video that plainly contradicted the Trump administration’s initial narrative made that clear. Mark Carney, the prime minister of Canada, also drove home that point when he declared at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, that the world was in the midst of a “rupture.” What do people think of America now in Europe? In China? And if American hegemony is coming to an end, what comes after that?
Adam Tooze is a historian at Columbia University and a chronicler of crises. The Guardian recently called him “the crisis whisperer.” He’s written a number of books about the times when systems fall apart and new orders emerge, including “Crashed: How a Decade of Financial Crises Changed the World.” And on his Substack, Chartbook, he tracks the unfolding crises and power shifts, in particular the rise of China. He also had a front-row seat to the chaos of Davos last week, moderating a panel that included Howard Lutnick, the commerce secretary. I wanted to talk to Tooze about what he saw at the World Economic Forum, how the world’s understanding of the U.S. is changing and how he’s making sense of this moment.
0:00 Intro
2:38 Davos recap
10:13 Trump administration’s vision of American power
16:15 China’s message at Davos
20:04 Is Trump right about America’s trajectory? 25:11 How America has perceived China’s rise
31:20 Is China in decline?
36:02 China’s progress: a mindbending experience for Tooze
42:13 The Trump administration’s contradictory approach to energy
50:06 How does China now see America?
53:36 Davos and the next world order?
59:44 Book recommendations
Read the full transcript here: https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqa0E3WkpYZXNWWVJENzJERU1RZS03VnMxVzE5UXxBQ3Jtc0trUFJUc2doek42RlMtaGU5cHNTSEJtOHB4bThTMXkxMWsyYjBOYU42a3VSdVRoU3AwV0MyTXJYb1pfcWZDYm40ZlBFNjFmSkE1NzJzSVBDaXJJVHJXdGxJbFhnUGxIYjlHb0Q1ZHZ3TUNLcjZ2dXJRdw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2026%2F01%2F30%2Fopinion%2Fezra-klein-podcast-adam-tooze.html&v=9gR7CsXIwFs |
