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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!!

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To: Dwight E. Karlsen who wrote (18015)3/11/1998 10:24:00 PM
From: Grainne  Read Replies (1) of 108807
 
Dwight, I certainly would not dispute that Sodom and Gomorrah were cities which actually existed. Thank you for the archaeological information from the Bible Encyclopedia, incidentally.

When I went on a web search to find out more about this subject, however, I was inundated with web sites, many of them written by ministers and at least one ex-priest, arguing that because of misunderstandings about culture and interpretation of particular words and phrases, it could be argued rather successfully that God did not punish anyone with fire and brimstone because of homosexuality at all.

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Can You Be Both Gay and Christian?

A Critical Look At Scripture From The Ontario Centre For Religious Tolerance

Many people have been taught during childhood that homosexual behaviour is
condemned both by God and by their religion as unnatural and morally degenerate. If
they discover later in life that they are lesbian, gay, or bisexual they often go through a
spiritual crisis. Too many realize that their sexual orientation is unchangeable, and that
they cannot go through life as someone that they have been taught to hate; they commit
suicide. (About 30% of teen suicides are due to this cause; one of the costs of
homophobia). Survivors experience a conflict between what they are and what they
believe. They sometimes abandon their religion. Some become enthusiastically
anti-religious.

The purpose of this essay is to explore the possibility of a gay or lesbian restoring their
faith by overcoming the apparent conflict between their religion and their sexual
orientation. We will select what might be the most difficult example: that of a
homosexual, ex-Fundamentalist Christian who
believes that the Bible is inerrant; (i.e. is without error in its original form) and whose
denomination condemns homosexual behaviour.

Step 1: What Did Jesus Christ Say about Homosexuality?

In a word, nothing. He is recorded as having given hundreds of instructions covering
behaviour and thought; but none of these dealt with homosexuality. Jesus concentrated
on a person's
interactions with God and his fellow humans. He did tell the woman who committed
adultery to go and sin no more. But that was the only time he is known to have
commented on sexual morality. Jesus may have felt that homosexuality was not a matter
worth commenting upon.

Step 2: Understanding the Hebrew Scriptures

There are many places in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) that have been
traditionally interpreted as condemning homosexuality. It is important that we go past
modern day translations like the King James Version, and determine what the original
authors wrote. In their eagerness to condemn gays and lesbians, the translators and
interpreters of the Bible often introduced an anti-homosexual slant. A careful analysis of
the original texts reveals a different story:

Genesis 19 describes the destruction of Sodom, which has been attributed to the
homosexuality of its citizens; the men may have wanted to rape the (male) angels.
Actually, the text at this point is ambiguous; the original Hebrew word sometimes referred
to sexual activity although it usually meant "to know" in a literal sense. But a careful
reading of Genesis and Ezekiel reveals that inhospitality pride, idol worship, and lack of
consideration for the poor were their prime sins. If homosexuality was involved, it was
obviously not consentual sexual activity; it was rape. So we can safely conclude that
Sodom was destroyed because of the sins of its citizens which included their habit of
raping visitors.

Judges 19 seems to be a duplicate of the Genesis story.

Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13 condemns male homosexual behaviour, but appears to refer only
to temple prostitution. Even if it did refer to lesbian and gay relationships, it would not be
applicable to Christians today, any more than the passages which surround these verses
which form the Jewish Holiness Code.

Deuteronomy 23:17, I Kings 14:24 and 15:12 are mistranslated in some versions of the
Bible as referring to homosexual behaviour. "Temple prostitute" would be an accurate
translation.

Ruth 1:16 and 2:10-11 describe a deeply intimate relationship between Ruth and Naomi
which may or may not have had a sexual component.

1 Samuel 18:1-4 and 20:41-42 and 2 Samuel 1:25-26 describe a deeply intimate
relationship between David and Jonathan which may or may not have had a sexual
component.

We conclude that the Hebrew Scriptures condemn homosexual rape and temple
prostitution, but do not disapprove of gay and lesbian relationships. One can be confident
that centuries of fire and brimstone sermons on homosexuality based on verses from the
Old Testament are misinterpretations of the Bible.

Step 3: Understanding the Christian Scriptures

There are many places in the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) that have been
traditionally interpreted as condemning homosexuality.

Romans 1:26 and 27 has St. Paul criticizing sexual activity which is against a person's
nature or disposition. This passage has been variously interpreted to refer to all
homosexual behaviour, to orgiastic activity, to temple prostitution, or to heterosexuals
who were engaging in same-sex exchanges. The meaning is unclear.

I Corinthians 6:9 contains a lists of activities that will prevent people from inheriting the
Kingdom of God. One was translated as referring to masturbation, and is now sometimes
translated as "homosexual". The true meaning is lost.

1 Timothy 1:9 is similar to I Corinthians.

Jude 7 refers to the people of Sodom as "giving themselves over to fornication and going
after strange flesh". The latter has been variously translated as women engaging in sexual
intercourse with angels and as homosexuality. The exact meaning is lost.

We conclude that St. Paul in the Christian Scriptures seems to have condemned some
homosexual activity, but it is unclear which ones. There is no mention of loving,
committed gay and lesbian relations in the Christian Scriptures.

--The Ontario Centre for Religious Tolerance provides accurate
information on small religions, and exposes groundless religious hatred.
For more information on the OCRT you can write to them at:

OCRT
Box 27026
Frontenac PO
Kingston ON Canada K7M8W5.

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It really seems to me that the Bible can mean almost anything to anyone, and one of the web sites argues this point:

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From: frhavican@aol.com (Fr Havican)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: GLBT Spirituality: Discussion-Fundamentalism
Date: 20 Jan 1995 17:15:07 -0500

Nine biblical citations are customarily invoked as relating to
homosexuality. Four (Deuteronomy 23:17, I Kings 14:24, I Kings 22:46
and II Kings 23:7) simply forbid prostitution, by men and women.

Two others (Leviticus 18:19-23 and Leviticus 20:10-6) are part of
what biblical scholars call the Holiness Code. The code explicitly
bans homosexual acts. But it also prohibits eating raw meat,
planting two different kinds of seed in the same field and wearing
garments with two different kinds of yarn. Tattoos, adultery
and sexual intercourse during a woman's menstrual period are
similarly outlawed.

There is no mention of homosexuality in the four Gospels of the New
Testament. The moral teachings of Jesus are not concerned with
the subject.

Three references from St. Paul are frequently cited (Romans 1:26-2:1,
I Corinthians 6:9-11 and I Timothy 1:10). But St. Paul was
concerned with homosexuality only because in Greco-Roman culture
it represented a secular sensuality that was contrary to his
Jewish-Christian spiritual idealism. He was against lust and
sensuality in anyone, including heterosexuals. To say that
homosexuality is bad because homosexuals are tempted to do morally
doubtful things is to say that heterosexuality is bad because
heterosexuals are likewise tempted. For St. Paul, anyone who puts
his or her interest ahead of God's is condemned, a verdict that falls
equally upon everyone.

And lest we forget Sodom and Gomorrah, recall that the story is not
about sexual perversion and homosexual practice. It is about
inhospitality, according to Luke 10:10-13, and failure to care for
the poor, according to Ezekiel 16:49-50: "Behold, this was the
iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread, and
abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did
she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy." To suggest that
Sodom and Gomorrah is about homosexual sex is an analysis of about
as much worth as suggesting that the story of Jonah and the whale
is a treatise on fishing.

The same Bible that the predecessors of Mr. Falwell and Mr. Robertson
used to keep white churches white is the source of the inspiration
of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and the social reformation of
the 1960s.

The same Bible that anti-feminists use to keep women silent in the
churches is the Bible that preaches liberation to captives and
says that in Christ there is neither male nor female, slave nor free.

And the same Bible that on the basis of an archaic social code of
ancient Israel and a tortured reading of Paul is used to condemn
all homosexuals and homosexual behavior includes metaphors of
redemption, renewal, inclusion and love -- principles that invite
homosexuals to accept their freedom and responsibility in Christ
and demands that their fellow Christians accept them as well.

Just a thought...

Rob

Fr. Robert H. Havican, O.S.F. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
P.O.Box 16181, Austin, TX 78761-6181
[Reformed Catholic Priest/Texas Police Officer]
========= "We are humans, not issues." =============
(cutecop@aol.com) (frhavican@aol.com) (revfrrob@io.com)
=============================================

Return to Gay:Religion
The Bibble Pages, Copyright (C) 1996 Christian Molick, mollusk@bibble.org
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So while some Christians argue against homosexuals based on the Bible, other Christians argue that homosexuals cannot be excluded or condemmed based on ANY passages in the Bible.

I am also curious about homosexuality and Christians, because I thought Christians wanted more people to believe in Christ, not fewer. Is this true only for some churches, and not others? Are some more exclusive, and some more inclusive? There are a whole lot of homosexual people who consider themselves Christians, in any event, and some of them are ministers and priests.

Do conservative Christians who believe that Sodom and Gomorrah is about God's wrath on homosexuals believe these gay Christian religious figures are going to go to Hell?

Christine
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