Thought you might have interest.
Out of a survey of (theoretically) serious traders 70 replies produces 6 people who trade purely on a system. (I presume you would be one of them). All 6 reported gains in excess of $12K after expenses over the past year.
I'm not one of those, BTW, I'm in Category One.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RT:
The survey results are in. Thanks to all who participated. Here is
the output.
(Criteria for survey repeated below for anyone who would like to review.)
-----------------------------
70 members of this list responded.
-----------------------------
Category 1. Discretionary, all or partially, technical tool indicators
or forecasting oriented.
40 in category
17 of 40 were 12+
--------------------------------
Category 2. Discretionary, all or partially, not indicator based,
emphasis on chart analysis or math or numbers.
19 in category
10 of 19 were 12+
---------------------------------
Category 3. Indicator based. No discretion, 100% mechanical, with trader
observation and application of mechanical rules.
6 in category
6 of 6 were 12+
----------------------------------
Category 4. As in #3, but not indicator based.
0 in category
0 12+
------------------------------------
Category 5. 100% mechanical with computer generated signals for entry
and exit. No observation required other than response to computer alert.
5 in category
3 of 5 12+
---------------------------------------
Thanks again,
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> SURVEY PROCEDURE
>
> (DEADLINE MIDNITE PST WEDNESDAY)(April 15)
>
> Following is a summary of the survey procedure. Following this summary, there
> will be an elaboration to hopefully clarify details, so it should be easy to
> determine what your trading approach category is, and if you exceed the
> survey profit threshold. Then again at the end the suvey submission instructions
> will be repeated. Remember the criteria are cut and dry, based on following
> definitions.
>
> SURVEY RESPONSES GO TO FOLLOWING ADDRESS:
>
> survey@realtraders.com
>
> ONLY ONE REPLY PERPERSON.
>
> IN BODY OF EMAIL REPLY DESIGNATE CATEGORY 1,2,3,4 OR 5 AS BEST DESCRIBING YOUR
> APPROACH TO TRADING. (FOR MOST THIS IS ALL THAT IS REQUIRED FOR SURVEY.)
>
> IF 12 PLUS APPLIES TO YOU FOLLOWING DESIGNATION IS ALSO MADE IN BODY OF EMAIL.
> DESIGNATE 12 PLUS IF YOUR AFTER EXPENSE PRFOITS FROM TRADING 3/31/97-3/31/98
> EXCEEDED 12,000.00. IF NOT 12 PLUS, NO DESIGNATION IS MADE.
>
>
> 5 CATEGORIES OF TRADING APPROACHES
>
> The following five categories will be definitive for the purpose of this survey.
> Simply determine which category best describes your own approach to trading.
> The definitions are lengthy, in an attempt to answer all possible questions
> and be all inclusive of just about any approach one might use.
>
> (Note: we know that there may be may different ways to break down categories
> of approaches to trading. For a survey design some decision must be made to
> draw the lines and go with it. The attempt here is to differentiate some
> idea among subjective vs. objective approaches, and "technical indicator"
> vs "chart analysis/common sense, or number based" approaches to trading.
> What we have settled upon with the following definitions will be good enough
> for useful conclusions, and should be adequate to fit anyone's approach.
> So please don't worry about splitting hairs. The same applies to our profit
> threshold. Obviously lots of arguments could be made for higher or lower values,
> or the preference for % based return, different account sizes, etc. No way to
> have all. Our simple criteria will be good enough for useful conclusions. So,
> again no need to split hairs.)
>
> DETERMINE YOUR CATEGORY AND REPLY WITH CATEGORY NUMBER IN BODY OF YOUR EMAIL
> REPLY.
>
> SURVEY RESPONSES GO TO FOLLOWING ADDRESS:
>
> survey@realtraders.com
>
> 1.Many software derived indicators, and/or any subjective judgement . (No
> need to split hairs about what is an indicator or not. The ones common in
> software programs, like TS, SC, MS, FS, Ensign, Apsen, or NP, Get, OT, WW,
> etc. Canned, programmed, no matter.)
> Also, whether or not you use indicators, if you approach allows for any
> judgement, either subjective application, or somewhat objective, but sometimes
> override, or pick and choose trades. This category includes mechanical systems,
> if the user overrides signals, or picks and chooses signals.
> (Note. Survey is meant to be cut and dry. If you follow mechanical or objective
> rules 90% of the time, or your method is "95%" objective, you still are in
> category #1, since your approach uses some subjectivity.) This category
> includes all of the geometric techniques and the more subjective oriented
> "forecasting turns" approaches. Gann, Elliott Wave, cycles, astrological, etc.,
> are in this category, unless the application has been strictly objectively
> quantified to the extent that it has been fully mechanized, such that it could
> be automatically traded by any trader with the written rules or software
> automated signals. In that case, a trader using these tools might fit into
> categories #3 or #5.
>
> 2. Not indicator based. Using chart only, or pivot numbers, or some other
> numbers (Fib, chart support resistance, simple trendlines, chart analysis and
> "common sense", which may include some fundamental thinking (Reports'
> influences, etc.). As in #1, also using judgement, either subjective application,
> or somehat objective, but sometimes override, and choose trades. This
> category includes mechanical systems, if the system is chart or number based,
> (but without software derived technical indicator tools) and the user overrides
> signals, or picks and chooses signals.
>
> 3.Indicator based. Strictly no ambiguity 100% mechanical application of rules > which have been thoroughly backtested with 100% objective rules for all entry > and exit criteria, that could be universally understood and traded with exact > same exit and entry points, achievable by another trader who has read and > understood the rules.
>
> 4. As in #3, but with no indicators, other than chart,
> price levels, or mathematical levels. Strictly no ambiguity 100% mechanical
> application of rules which have been thoroughly backtested with 100% objective
> rules for all entry and exit criteria, that could be universally understood
> and traded with exact same exit and entry points, achievable by another trader
> who has read and understood the rules.
>
> 5. Any 100% mechanical system with computer generated signals for entry and exit.
> (Might be a vendor's TS system, or your own programmed mechanical system, or
> other software mechanical system generating orders. Or same thing with
> orders automatically plce with broker assistance, if computer generated aoutomatic
> signals.) No judgement, the computer beeps or indicates time and
> price, and trade is taken on every signal, exited on every exit signal.
>
> CRITERIA OF PROFITABILITY
>
> Our criteria of "profitability" will be simply defined as after expense income
> at a level that can certainly be considered bare minimum, 12,000.00 from past 12
> months, 3/31/97 through 3/31/98. That means, after all trading related expenses,
> data feed or subscriptions, newsletters, systems, seminars, books, methods,
> advisories, etc., have been paid out, your trading has generated at least
> 12,000.00. Again, we are cut and dry for the survey. If your profit after
> all expenses is 11,200.00, close but no cigar. No need to reply to
> 12 PLUS part of survey. If 12,000.00 profit was made 1/1/97 to 1/1/98,
> but not 12,000.00 from 3/3/97-3/3/98, again close but no cigar. No need to
> reply to 12 PLUS part of survey.(A simple definition to avoid rate of return
> and % on equity debates. All we are looking for is a really low common
> denominator of what even someone with most modest aspirations might deem
> justifiable as a full time profession. Less than minimum wage.)
>
> WHEN YOU CLICK THE BROWSER BUTTON, IN THE BODY OF YOUR EMAIL REPLY, SIMPLY
> SPECIFY 12 PLUS, IF YOUR TRADING PROFITS 3/31/97-3/31/98 EXCEEDED 12,000.00
> AFTER ALL TRADING RELATED EXPENSES.
>
>
> SUMMARY:
>
> SURVEY RESPONSES GO TO FOLLOWING ADDRESS:
>
> survey@realtraders.com
>
> IN BODY OF EMAIL REPLY DESIGNATE CATEGORY 1,2,3, OR 4 AS BEST DESCRIBING YOUR
> APPROACH TO TRADING.
>
> IF 12 PLUS APPLIES TO YOU FOLLOWING DESIGNATION IS ALSO MADE IN BODY OF EMAIL.
> DESIGNATE 12 PLUS IF YOUR AFTER EXPENSE PRFOITS FROM TRADING 3/31/97-3/31/98
> EXCEEDED 12,000.00.
> IF NOT 12 PLUS, NO DESIGNATION IS MADE.
>
> REMEMBER ONLY ONE REPLY PER PERSON. STRICT CUT AND DRY ANSWERS ACCORDING
> TO DEFINITONS OF SURVEY DESIGN. THE SUCCESS AND USEFULNESS OF THIS SURVEY
> FOR ALL OF US DEPENDS ON PARTICIPATION AND HONESTY OF ALL RESPONSES.
>
> ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxzzzzzzzzzzzzzzoooooooozzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
