jfred, This is embarrassing, getting drowned by reason in Mathew's stream by my own beloved jfred. Well, at least Clinton won!! Hahahaaha!! That should soften you up, if I can be gently provocative in the Church of the Pony. Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, Clinton - four more years.
First of, beliefs. I operate on huge numbers of rules of thumb and beliefs based on what other people have told me or that I conclude myself from what I see around me. Why not believe in Dog? Because the theory they put up doesn't fit as well with my reality as my own theory of programming. I work very hard to develop mental programs and depend heavily on them all day long. Just running all sorts of parallel programs to safely, happily and profitably wend my way through a complex 3D and now 2D world. Which will smash me when my program fails to match reality at a crucial time.
To believe a Dog theory, I'd first have to choose from one of many. They can't all be right. My theory works fine. Dog theories invariably involve irrational mumbo jumbo which conflicts with reality as I see it. Maybe you have a better Dog theory.
"If we accept causal relationships instead of witchcraft, fantasy and mysticism," Okay, it is a false alternative, but in explaining my reality, I find causal works fine. Santa, witchcraft, not checking before crossing the road, and buying shares with a dartboard are not for me. Not strictly alternatives, but you know what I mean.
Determinism is more than a belief system like any religion. It can be tested. Any test I've seen or can imagine does not falsify it. Religions can be tested and falsified. For example, there is one god and HE is ours, is a common claim. Well, we need no test other than logic to see that either that one [or all the others] conflicts with reality. Since they all make the same claim pretty well, we can safely dismiss the lot on that basis alone. If we can find the one TRUE one, then we can come up with some tests for it to fail alone. No jfred, determinism is a lot more than another goofy religion, but it is a belief system, like the theory of evolution or the theory of rocks falling from high altitudes to low. Wait till gravitons go into reverse and then see how your belief in falling rocks gets on.
"Responsible" simply means gets the consequence of an action. A tree which chooses to grow on a cliff is responsible for its choice and gets the consequence of falling down. A person stealing is responsible and gets to go to jail. Neither can help themselves, but that is what happens. Of course the responsible felon can be reprogrammed by fear before taking an action and then avoids the consequences of what might have been a course of action without the programming boost.
Determinism is not a distortion of reality, it is the best match I've come up with. Denying things can be known is silly. Our brain is knowing, that is its function. Things can be chosen - like a chess program chooses a move and has even beaten Kasparov in a game. They easily beat everyone else. Determinism doesn't preclude choice - it is simply not random choice. It is choice based on what has gone before. Anyone would say that both Kasparov and puter choose moves. The puter though, more obviously deterministically chooses a move. Kasparov is equally determined and so far has prevailed.
The proof jfred is in the outcomes. Test causal any way you like. Wins every time. I test it evey second of the day. Test religion, Santa, tarot cards, magicians and charlatans lots of ways and you get poorer, if not death and destruction. Fancy calling me religious! @#^!+|\><
Hang on, I didn't drown in reason at all. There wasn't very much. Having raised 4 children, I can tell you that future behaviour is determined by inputs and reprogramming is quite possible. I notice that my behaviour is likewise affected by inputs. Sinking stocks = sinking stomach, rising stocks = long posts on SI!!!
I better go answer Mathew or he'll think my reactions are slow!!
Maurice |
