THOUGHT'S from ANOTHER
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Date: Tue Apr 28 1998 20:41
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
ALL:
My post today of the Euro outcome, "Date: Tue Apr 28 1998 16:59 ANOTHER ( THOUGHTS! ) ID#60253:", will be the last for a many days. Much is happening now and time does not wait. I hope to return before the changes , as a move above $360 will show the world that oil has moved for the Euro currency. We will know soon!
Thank You
Mr. sharfin, I thank you
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Date: Tue Apr 28 1998 16:59
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
Copyright c 1998 ANOTHER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
ALL:
I see the USAGOLD company has found the EURO important! One does ask, what will this currency look like? It is very clear, yes? See my Date: "Sat Apr 25 1998 22:55 ANOTHER ( THOUGHTS! ) ID#60253:", and look to the BONN report! There the Germany does offer one answer. If they do "transfer" their reserves portion in gold, and Germany does make up one third of the reserves, then the Euro will have 30%+ gold backing by nature of Germany alone!
Also, Italy has shown the market of gold will be brought to $360 by nature of it's marking to this level. They state this publicly! They also ask for 30%+, publicly!
Also, the Bank of England does prepare it's public for this new gold market! A market that will deny the repayment of gold loaned, at US$ prices that will keep Bullion Banks alive! The Euro will be strong, indeed!
Also, the UBS does ask, "what will the Cbs do with all the left over gold"? I ask, "what will the Germans do with all the left over US$"? Truly, with the Euro about to win the price of oil, gold will grow large in the dollar!
As the BO England gold does not come home, the US$ reserves must "COME HOME"!
Thank You
As soon as able, I will write of the BIS.
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Date: Sun Apr 26 1998 12:49
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
Copyright c 1998 ANOTHER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
REPLY:
Date: Sun Apr 26 1998 12:17
Haggis__A ( ANOTHER......... ) ID#398105:
This precise reason why the EURO has to be backed by GOLD. The boys on Wall Street and the USA will HAVE to fight this one. However, the key is
for the Japanese and the Chinese currencies to be backed by GOLD. The Chinese may well be on their way, the Japanese a concern as they have as of July 97 0.5% of the Bank of Japan resources held in physical gold.
Mr. Haggis,
I think, China was buying a great deal of gold and gold commitments ( paper gold ) thru a HK trader. They became much of the "not enough physical gold " problem for the oil/gold trade. China dumped much of this paper and continued to take in gold even today. Japan is a story of "no happy ending" as they are seen as "not aligned with Europe" or the BIS way of things. The EURO may send Japan down with the USA dollar! Asia will be lead by China, as they do understand a "Euro world". The ECB does know that "all holes in earth, lead to china"!
Thank You
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Date: Sun Apr 26 1998 11:52
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
Copyright c 1998 ANOTHER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
REPLY:
Date: Sun Apr 26 1998 09:41
jonesy ( @ ANOTHER re. Gold Wars ) ID#251166:
In your last post ( today 00:39 ) you say, "If the Euro wins, the Gold Wars will begin at $360, and crude in US$ could be in the hundreds?"
Question: Re. Gold War -- What specific actions and reactions do you envision? In other words, What possible scenario ( s ) , blow-by-blow, may we look for in a Gold War?
Mr. Jonesy,
This battle of wealth began long before our eyes were open. It was born as a conflict of the human spirit. Many teach the way of "honest dealings" and "earn your own way", then force their neighbor to accept a currency debt receipt, as payment for "real commerce goods". The world reserve currency is held by "default" not choice. Today. every digital money is a product of the US$ by nature of "it being the book keeping reserve". To this extent, the US$ is the only world currency! To this end, noone can see the true size of the "mismatch" in gold as money in US$. No country, Japan included, can sell dollar reserves without destroying their own currency! The BIS does not recognize other currencies as reserves, as they are, in themselves, a dollar product!
This "new gold war", it will be as "none before". The BIS will bring gold into the $320 to $360 range for the Euro. The US will attack the Euro for what it has become, "a new world oil currency" offered to remove the oil backing from the US$. At first, the dollar will be partially sold by many Cbs, especially the ones with little local oil, Japan, Yes? As unneeded dollars are set free, the true value of real things will be seen in dollar terms, gold, cars, oil, etc.. In this light, one can see why many large buyers have been taking in gold, as it is held in terms of value of "after the war". Not the traded price of today.
Sir;
Your life passes, thoughts change and a persons perception of value does mature. The world, today does also mature! You will find a new financial future, in a value from the past. The world will embrace gold as "a better inheritance for our children" for it has now become a "lifetime holding". It is "the human nature" to be social, and many will not see this "new future" until it "has use from others".
"it is the way of people, some are part of the future, as they become the history of the past"
Thank You
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Date: Sun Apr 26 1998 00:39
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
Copyright c 1998 ANOTHER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
REPLY:
Date: Sat Apr 25 1998 23:53
PrivateInvestor ( Another thinks ) ID#225283:
Another please tell me what you think of the current situation in the world oil markets. Countries such as Mexico are seeing 50% of all government revenues dry up as the price of oil continues to go south...The same must be true of our gold holding friends in the middle east...What are your prognostications???
Sir,
We are close to "much change". The oil reserves of the middle east show a history of value delivered for currencies of "broken promises"! The supply of oil was never the problem, only the "market of oil" in "what kind of money" that caused much distrust. Today, many try to understand oil thru a currency that cannot offer a final payment of true value. I tell you, supply and demand mean nothing in this relm. The "fight", is to bring oil down in US$ terms, then convert to an "open" partial gold payment. With gold priced correctly, oil would be very cheap for western, non producers. But, the owners of "local reserves" as Mexico, would suffer as gold would not be allowed for payment to them. The Euro, it could be the result of this war.
If the Euro wins, the Gold Wars will begin at $360, and crude in US$ could be in the hundreds?
Much is still as "up in air", we watch for a while.
I must be gone for a time.
Thank You
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Date: Sun Apr 26 1998 00:06
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
Copyright c 1998 ANOTHER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
REPLY:
Date: Sat Apr 25 1998 23:13
aurophile ( ANOTHER ) ID#256326:
The US does not "back" its currency with specific reserves as other nations do ( of necessity ) as a matter of policy, but it does have the reserves of gold and foreign currency. The German move, if it happens, is simply accounting legerdemain ( ledger-demain? ) , and is no more meaningful in reality than the Federal Reserve's monetizing of US debt.
Sir,
This "matter of policy", it is without reason? If US$ is reserve for all other currencies, how can other currencies be held as reserve for US$? When one ask question, "does chicken back egg, or egg back chicken ", a good reply comes as "matter of policy? Yes?
You state:
" In the modern system, gold is of far less usefulness to a currency's essential value than the political, legal, and military "currency" of its issuer."
Sir,
Fifty years of modern history do not show this to be true. Political, legal and military "currencies" do come and go with the "Seasons", but "gold currency" did keep promise for citizens of changing times!
Date: Sat Apr 25 1998 23:27
Auric ( EMU Question ) ID#255151:
Ok, let's say the EMU is 10% Gold backed. How do you know that in a year or two the CB of Europe won't change the rules in midstream. What's to stop them, say in the year 2000, from deciding that the EMU will only be 5% Gold backed? How firm is this promise?
Sir,
When physical gold trades by side of EURO, the rules will hold even at three fourths stream!
thank you
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Date: Sat Apr 25 1998 23:35
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
Copyright c 1998 ANOTHER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All:
The Swiss, not dumb! There will come a time when gold and Euro are as "the same". Not in price or value, but as used for "real money". The Swiss will sell, just not as you think "sell". In that time, gold will be "transferred" to other Cbs as money or real reserves.
Money is not what you afford, you earn it! In the near future, gold money will buy more than dollar money, much more! It is as to compare a one dollar bill to a hundred dollar bill, both money, just one buys more!
Many think the only way gold can rise in dollar terms is if USA prints to many! Truly, they have printed to many already. Gold will rise in dollar terms, many thousands even if treasury inflates currency no more. This rise in price will cost London much! You have seen the Bank of England report of gold that does not come home?
We watch this new gold market together, yes?
Thank You
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Date: Sat Apr 25 1998 22:55
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
Copyright c 1998 ANOTHER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Mr TYoung:
Please read and consider this thinking person, as many do read your thoughts!
One must take this thought into consideration when deciding weather to hold dollars or the Euro. "The United States Government does not hold any reserves against it's currency". Truly, this can only be the case of the world reserve money. Indeed, all other currencies have reserves of US$ to back them, yet only the dollar has nothing! Yes, the USA does hold many billions in foreign exchange, to use in the defense of maintaining exchange rates against the dollar. However, these holdings are not reserves.
When the US government does not take in enough taxes to meet expenses, it sells treasury debt to make up the difference. When no one bids for this debt at an "acceptable" interest rate, the Federal Reserve bank buys the debt, outright! It gives printed cash to Washington and then, "holds the new treasury debt ( bond ) as backing for the issued cash!
Everyone understands the implications of this. Or do they? In reality, when the US government needs money, it doesn't sell debt! It "TRANSFERS" the obligation of it's citizens to pay future real production ( taxes ) as a "backing" for it's newly printed currency! As this process has been going on for decades, it has built up a debt of "real production payments" that it's citizens can never pay. Further, as the world reserve, this currency is held thru proxy "by every single person on this planet" that uses paper to trade anything!
It is true, that in times past when a currency is inflated ( over printed ) to a point of only 10% real gold backing, the government could revalue gold 90% upward and the currency was 100% backed again! A terrible blow to the holders of this paper, but at least the money system survived! Today, the worlds currency, the US$, by default, would require a gold price of many, many thousands to back it without using it's citizens as collateral! The only problem with this is the US gold stock is so small, that even at $10,000/oz, a large deflation would be necessary to decrease the outstanding US currency to this gold backing level!
Now, consider the Euro. It will have much real gold backing from the beginning. Even at 10% to 30%, the Euro will be the equivalent of a 100% gold backed dollar, when the world comes off the dollar standard! The selling of old dollar reserves, alone will reprice gold in US$ terms of at least $6,000/oz! It's present interbank reserve value.
Read the BONN report again:
""BT 1 APR 1998 BONN
Buba seen transferring gold to new Euro central bank
THE Bundesbank, which must provide about one-third of reserves of the new European Central Bank ( ECB ) , may decide to transfer most of its share in gold, providing a windfall for the German budget, analysts said.
Such a move would raise public confidence by backing the new currency with gold, and would support gold prices by reassuring investors the Bundesbank won't sell excess reserves on the market, an analyst said.
In addition, the transfer would be recorded at market prices, whereas the gold is now valued at less than one-third its market value. That would mean a multibillion-mark paper gain the government could book against debt.
"It would be a neat move," said Alison Cottrell, economist at PaineWebber International in London. "There's the psychology factor of the ECB holding gold, the government would benefit from a revaluation and it should, at the very least, put a floor under the gold price."
The European Central Bank will go into operation on Jan 1, the same day the euro becomes the currency for an expected 11 nations. Germany, because it's the European Union's largest economy and most populous country, will have to provide about one-third of the 50 billion Ecus ( S$86.5 billion ) the new bank will need in its role to set monetary policy.
The Bundesbank, Europe's largest holder of gold, has around 95 million ounces, valued on its books at 13.7 billion marks ( S$11.9 billion ) . The market value is about 55 billion marks.
A Bundesbank spokesman wouldn't comment on what the central bank's plans are, saying that won't happen until the member states for monetary union are named and the members of the European Central Bank are appointed. -- Bloomberg""
Mr. Young,
The German CB will not be selling gold to the new ECB for dollars! This "TRANSFER" will be in terms of "German Mark reserve requirements" that will soon be the "German Euro currency reserves"! Soon, European oil purchases will be made in, partial gold backed Euro's that "in US dollar terms", will be the same as 100% gold backed currency! As Another would say: Gold and oil will never flow in the same direction!
Sir,
you think long and hard on this: in USA , this paper currency, it show not the true wealth of persons assets!
Another
Thank You
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Date: Sat Apr 25 1998 21:49
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
Mr. TYoung,
Will the German government "sell" gold to the new ECB, or will they "transfer" it? A large difference, Yes? I send a post for this, this day.
Thank You
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Date: Sun Apr 19 1998 16:04
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
Copyright c 1998 ANOTHER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
REPLY:
Date: Sun Apr 19 1998 15:17
aurophile ( ANOTHER ( THOUGHTS ) ) ID#256326:
Many, perhaps all, of the mines will end up being owned by the lenders who have also lent mine management's rope for their own hanging. Although it is a special case, the Pegasus story is instructive in this regard.
Mr. Aurophile,
I think, in the years to come, many lenders, as Bullion Banks, will find much rope in great supply, offered to them, not the mines! These banks, are in middle with no way to settle, as national governments buy mine production! It is today, treasuries only can print currency, so will it be tomorrow that only government buy and give citizens real money, gold!
I will be gone for a time! We talk again, yes?
Thank You
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Date: Sun Apr 19 1998 15:49
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
Copyright c 1998 ANOTHER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Date: Sun Apr 19 1998 14:31
mozel ( @ANOTHER ) ID#153102:
" Was Gold Leasing by CB's an accidental mistake or an intentional mistake do you think?"
Mr. Mozel,
This world of money, it is a fierce one! I ask all, does anyone know a money manager with money for loan at 2%? No? Does not even the bank of Canada sell gold outright and receive "high" interest on cash? Is a CB that sells/leases gold dumb? NEVER!
If they sell gold, a way is clear to "bring gold back" for the nation! Canada has local mines, Australia has local mines, Belgium has South African mines! If they lease gold, it is for a purpose to buy "something" for the new supply to the market! The interest on the loan is for public view, as a "free gold loan" is not acceptable!
It truly started with Barrick, in Canada in the 80s. It was a "thin market", but grew big in oil. I think "intentional mistake" that was, as is said, "trial balloon"?
Thank You
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Date: Sun Apr 19 1998 15:09
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
Copyright c 1998 ANOTHER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
REPLY:
Date: Sun Apr 19 1998 03:38
Drifter ( ANOTHER'S Thoughts ) ID#270447
Date: Sun Apr 19 1998 14:18
OLD GOLD ( ) ID#238295:
There will be ample time for holders of gold bullion and gold shares to sell their holdings for huge profits. Drifter was right on target here. Let's worry about getting POG to $350 this year. We have a long way to go on the upside before confiscation and/or taxation becomes a realistic concern.
Mr. Drifter and Mr. Old Gold,
If you search the "thoughts" posts provided by Mr. Sharfin, many of your conclusions are addressed. Many do feel that if "the gold mines were safe in the past", "they will be safe in the future". I submit this persons thinking for your consideration:
"The Western public has always thought of gold as money. Even after the 70s and 80s, most private investors held a small side thought, that gold was still, somehow dollar money. It was only during the late 80s and 90s that people started to completely lose the connection of paper spending money and gold. Clearly, all evidence shows that prior to the 90s and particularly prior to the 50s, the push was to change the publics thinking away from gold money, to paper currency as money. In this political climate, gold mine investments were the correct move, as the business of gold was encouraged over the usage of gold as money! That is why the metal was called in and the mines were untouched.
However, today, the change will be counter to the prevailing public opinion, that gold "is not money". The world debt system and currency exchange, as we have know it will implode and leave little room for political maneuvering. The governments will revalue gold and "demand" that the public carry it and use it! It will be the source of all gold, the mines, that will be controlled! That's Controlled, with a capitol "C", not confiscated!"
Mr. Old Gold,
Sir, I do read your writings and consider your thoughts!
Thank You
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Date: Sun Apr 19 1998 14:25
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
Copyright c 1998 ANOTHER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
REPLY:
Date: Sun Apr 19 1998 00:20
mozel ( @JTF ) ID#153102:
A man who dueled as ANOTHER proposes would have had no honor. He would have been shot down like a dog by the seconds. Without trustworthy, honorable seconds to enforce the law of dueling, there is not a duel, just a fight and shooting on sight.
Mr. Mozel,
You do understand the world, as it is, not as you are told! You thoughts offer much.
In the Duel of Gold and Currencies, this time, no seconds will stand! I think, they Duel also. But, your perception of 'Honor" I agree with!
Thank You
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Date: Sun Apr 19 1998 14:14
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
Copyright c 1998 ANOTHER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
ALL, I could not finish from last post. Have time and will continue now for a short time.
REPLY:
Date: Sun Apr 19 1998 01:42
chas ( Another, rephrase of question ) ID#342282:
In reference to large volume oil producers' sales for currency ( paper ) , do they have to use this currency to buy the gold they prefer, or is there another method or methods to acquire the gold? The main question is, if there is another method"?
Mr Chas,
Yes. Many say, ME producers have no extra money for gold. They are in debt and "just making it". I say, they have much money, just not "your perception of money"! Many producers do not pump at "all out rate", and worlds largest proven reserves are in ground. In "gold market world", oil is wealth, and oil is money! It is the "good trade" to use "oil in ground" as backing to buy much paper "commitment for gold"! Future "currency" price of oil in ground is much unsure, but gold has world CB backing to be of great value, always! CB say, "your oil at $15 to $25, this is good as long as flowing", and say also " your oil pumps shut off, what price gold to turn back on?"
You see, in real world, gold is money, oil is money. But paper currency, it is only a receipt for commerce.
Thank you
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Date: Sun Apr 19 1998 00:43
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
Copyright c 1998 ANOTHER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
REPLY:
Date: Sat Apr 18 1998 23:03
chas ( Another re currency flood ) ID#342282:
Mr. Chas, I do not understand your question?
Date: Sat Apr 18 1998 23:32
BillD ( @ANOTHER ) ID#261269:
When would you expect these events to start moving the price of gold upwards?
Mr. BillD,
When the Cbs lose control. $360? Perhaps?
Date: Sat Apr 18 1998 23:48
Allen ( USA ) ( ANOTHER ) ID#255190:
Copyright c 1998 Allen ( USA ) /Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Appearantly the percentage will be revealed in early May along with the naming of the president of the ECB. Do you expect that this will be when this begins to change?
The EURO is not done yet, much political fighting yet. It may change again, after May!
What do you see as the sign or evidence that the first phase has commenced ( digital currency units being exchanged for real things ) ? Similarly what do you see as the sign or evidence that the second phase of dumping the US Dollar has commenced?
See my post to BillD.
"I wonder what avenue these people will take to secure physical property since most commodity contracts are really just more paper?
A problem for persons that do todays work, tomorrow!
Do you see the 4080 delivery notices for gold at the COMEX as a sign of this type of effort to take delivery of physical metal? Since there is only enough gold to accomodate 1475 contracts what will happen to the rest???
I think, good minds will find a way to work this problem out. We will watch!
Thank You, Mr. Allen
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Date: Sun Apr 19 1998 00:18
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
REPLY:
Date: Sat Apr 18 1998 22:38
JTF ( Only US gold mines confiscated? )
Mr. JTF,
Please see my Date: Sat Apr 18 1998 22:36
ANOTHER ( THOUGHTS! ) ID#60253:
Thank You
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Date: Sun Apr 19 1998 00:08
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
Copyright c 1998 ANOTHER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
REPLY:
Date: Sat Apr 18 1998 22:31
LIBERTY__A ( Gold mining stocks and their golden path! ) ID#263379:
Copyright c 1998 LIBERTY__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Mr. Another,
"How do you envision gold availability at this level?
"can you be specific. Is this plan a viable one, and what caveats to you envision?
Mr. Liberty_A,
Sir, the plan is good, the question is, "how good is your broker"? Noone can know how this world change will come about, in specifics. The gold market may lock at $400? Or $4,000! When the public perception does come to understand, many entities I know of will not be buying "at the market" as your broker will. These ones, they will be "above the market", "well above the market"! Will you bid $1,000 when your broker screen shows $475? I myself, as a country will be "there"! You sir, will stand well behind most in line.
I tell my children, as you may tell yours:
"when a thousand hungry lions fight for one scrap of food, small dogs should hide with what's in their belly"
Thank You
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Date: Sat Apr 18 1998 23:46
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
Copyright c 1998 ANOTHER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
REPLY:
Date: Sat Apr 18 1998 22:25
Carl ( @Another ) ID#341189:
"How do you see a company like for example Barrick, which holds "gold in the ground" in several countries"? Will each country simply take their gold? If gold is to held for the public good in the future, how would oil be purchased by private companies?
Mr. Carl,
See my last reply for the GCH. I think Barrick is a large bank and will require many good robbers! These government treasuries, good minds they have, I have seen!
Gold for the public good will be in the form of "money in the hand". A Dinar and a Euro for oil? We will see?
Thank You
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Date: Sat Apr 18 1998 23:27
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
Copyright c 1998 ANOTHER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
REPLY:
Date: Sat Apr 18 1998 22:18
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD ( HERR ANOTHER! ) ID#431263:
Copyright c 1998 GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
"why gold mining operators who pay their miners in devalued local currencies and sell production in US dollars will be harmed when gold revalues currencies? Won't gold be king at that point?"
Mr. GCH,
I think the governments will change the rules, just before you decide to sell. It is the way of life, yes? Is it not the "human nature" to rob the bank with the most money?
Time will prove all things!
Thank You
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Date: Sat Apr 18 1998 23:17
ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
Copyright c 1998 ANOTHER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved |
