<<<< I am not sure why anyone would believe that
Jesus was the last spiritual leader who walked the earth, and that anyone who
appears now is a fake.>>>
I guess the thing we are tripping over is our perspectives are so different.>>>>
Bob, I am sure this is where we start to disagree. There is so much different about our belief systems that I am sure we will never remedy that, but at least we can understand where each other is coming from.
<<<<If you
could imagine for a moment this: God created the universe with man who has free
will: man is enticed by another of God's creations to disobey God thereby losing
their immortality and fellowship with their creator. God came to earth in the form of
a man named Jesus, not just a man but the actual creator of the universe. Anyone
before or after Him would be an imposter if they claimed to be on the same level as
Jesus because He and Him alone created everything, everything else is His creation.
That is why any other Christ is a fake, because Jesus is The One True God. But
you do not accept that as being true. But we have to believe that is true in order to
regain what man started with. Those that don't are "lost". >>>>
I don't feel lost at all!! I don't believe man started with very much except a big brain and enough survival skills to keep going. The higher apes have rational thought processes and the ability to form stable family units for the rearing of children with long infancies--I am not sure we have even evolved very much since then. So first of all I have trouble understanding whan we would be regaining.
<<<<On your other points about the good and evil of certain organizations, just consider.
IF Jesus is the only way to regain our immortality and fellowship with the creator
and that is "good", then any organizations that opposes that or hinders that is not
good "evil". It is what is at stake that makes it all so important, it's our immortality.
But if you don't accept any of that then what you believe is as good as anything out
there. >>>>
This is really an essential difference in our belief systems. I have finally realized that all of the fear by the Christian far right of the "New World Order" is that all the organizations and leaders listed are simply not conservative Christians--including the World Council of Churches, I guess. A lot of the people and groups you fear are simply trying to keep children from starving, or grow organic vegetables, or educate children in a nurturing, healthy way, or prevent animals from extinction, or generally save the planet from deforestation and all sorts of pollution. I would agree that the "New Age" began with people who were unhappy with the earth the way it was. They perceived a Dark Age, with all the different religious groups fighting it out, lots of wars and killing, and the environment being damaged. So a lot of people in different places, who are not really part of any harmful conspiracy, tried to think of ways to stop all of this from happening, and get the earth and its peoples back on a good course, which would be constructive, ecologically sound, and harmonious. One of the primary things the New Agers all believe in is complete freedom of religion. So to me they are much more open and healthy than the conservative Christian right, which insists that Christianity prevail. My personal feeling is that Jesus would be leading the New Agers right now if he were here, because their ideals are much closer to his.
<<<<What does an animal believe. Consider a Lion who will kill the male cubs of another
Lion as a matter of dominance and survival of his own line. We call it murder, but in
their world it is natural and normal. The animal world is a moral vacuum. So if we
are just animals which we must be if what you say is true why do we think of killing
each other as murder? It is just survival and natural. Why would I be locked up for
keeping a group of women for my own by force and killing all my rivals? Where did
the thought come from that killing was murder and should be prevented. That
thought should not have occurred if we are just animals. Imagine a world where
human animals are crawling out of caves trying to survive in an animal, natural
world. There would be no example of anything different to go by, no concept of
"good" to change man's thinking. Just the natural law of survival. So where did the
"good" and "evil" concept come from? It had to come from outside of man's
"experience" because man's experience would have prevented the thought from
ever occurring just as the Lions have never evolved a "higher" morality. The if we
are not animals and we are created by a God who's character is all good and we
are created in His image then that explains where the concept comes from. Adam
and Eve were created by a good Creator. When they ate from the forbidden tree
they acquired the knowledge of good and evil and those two forces have been in
conflict ever since as men choose to live by one or the other. Adam and Eve were
driven from the garden to prevent them from also eating from the tree that would
make them like God and live forever. But we have the opportunity to eat from that
tree when we are born again by God, having renounced the evil that has stalked
man since the beginning. We are being made into the righteousness (or goodness) of
God so that we can be given eternal life. The eternal life that was denied Adam and
Eve in the garden.>>>>
Well, actually humans have much in common with lions and other animals who kill young that they did not sire. That basic instinct is thought to be the motivator for stepfathers who beat, sexually abuse, and sometimes kill children they did not parent. It is an instinct in the primitive brain for survival of the fittest, which would be the children of the stepfather in this case.
Also, lions and other animals kill mostly for food. Men often kill for sport, and pure pleasure, including killing other humans. Humans also kill in wars and crusades simply to push their religious beliefs on another, weaker, group. Good and evil is very subjective. A Christian during the Middle Ages would see himself as being very good for burning women at the stake he perceived to be witches. I would consider it very evil. There is no reason that these concepts did not come from man. I do not see why you believe they are an indication that there is something higher. Probably in the very first group of men, some of them were more faithful to their women and children, and less brutal, than the others. Women right away would decide the nice guys were good, and the mean ones were evil.
And if conservative Christians were particularly close to God, logically there would be no crimes at all in this group, but we know that this is not true. Good and evil have been forces forever in Christianity. In fact, there is a psychological theory that many people who cannot control their drinking, or use drugs, or molest children, or rape women, become conservative Christians as a brake on their evil behavior. Of course, these sad people were really very damaged as children, abused and mistreated themselves, and need treatment to break the cycle of abuse, and sometimes prison to protect themselves from the general population. This also explains one of the reasons why so many priests are child molesters. Some of the eastern religions accept that everyone has the potential for good and evil, and do not demonize sexual expression, holding sexual pleasure to be positive. But really, good and evil have a lot more to do with good child rearing than anything else. Children who have been reared with a lot of love, attention, and firm but gentle discipline simply grow up healthy. It is the instinct of people who are unhealthy to be destructive, or evil.
I am pretty sure we are not going to get anywhere with any of this, but I do understand more about why some Christians believe in the "New World Order" conspiracy. To me that is really too bad you feel this way, because the New Age people are trying to create a planet where everyone is healthy, happy, and lives in peace. I cannot see why Jesus would have any problem with that at all. |
