TO ALL OR ANYONE,
Last night(early AM) I made the first post listed below to James Bender. We have been discussing it for the better part of the day now through Private Mail and have come to the following agreement between us. I have pasted all of our discussion together so that each and every individual, who is so inclined, may read both points of view and decide whatever they wish.
I have done my best to cut and paste as accurately as I can. So, if their are any errors, sorry.
As far as I am concerned, I'm done with it and will not discuss it further. However, please feel free to comment as you like.
Best of luck,
George Webber
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To: James Bender (3956 )
From: grw5
Wednesday, Jun 17 1998 2:35AM ET
Reply # of 4040
Mr. Bender,
Ditto on Binder's post---
My dad always used to tell me "It's not what you say, it's how you say it.", and I think there is something to that here. However, in principle, I think we probably agree on more than we disagree on.
Good Luck to You,
:-)
Binder
On another thread, I sent you a private message (to avoid stirring up the thread) regarding and in support of an unpopular position you had expressed. Your response was to send back a negatively worded message about being each others enemy and having to work against each other in order to profit from the others loss. Although that is a working model for investing, it is not one that I choose to participate in since I do not believe that stocks have to be a zero-sum game.
Your intent may or may not be to elicit such negative responses (or you may not even care) but that is definitely the effect you have created on more than one occasion.
FYI if you want it..... or not.
I wish you best of luck, (but not at my expense)
George
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To: grw5
From: James Bender
Wednesday, Jun 17 1998 2:47AM ET
let me see a copy of what you are talking about...My list does not go back that far.....Jim
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To: James Bender (who wrote...)
From: grw5
Wednesday, Jun 17 1998 3:25AM ET
I don't think that private messages are kept anywhere that can be retrieved after you click on "I have read it" and I won't make any attempt to try to quote it from memory. It started out in regards to something you had said which was very unpopular on the EUTO thread, but that I felt was right on target.
So, I sent you a private message agreeing and your response was to the effect that as shareholders in the same co. we were competitors each trying to buy lower and sell higher than the other and that this represented an adversarial relationship in that you would buy at my loss in value and sell to me when you thought it would fall. It may not have been intended to be so negative, but that's the way it came across.
Like Binder said there is much that I agree with you on, but there is frequently a twist in your words that just rubs the wrong way. I don't know any other way to describe it and (if you are so inclined)I don't know what to tell you about how to change it. All I can say is, it has that effect on me and it seems to have a similar effect on some others as well.
Best of luck
George
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To: grw5 (who wrote...)
From: James Bender
Wednesday, Jun 17 1998 10:16AM ET
George go where you retrieve your PM and you see a spot where it says folders. click on it and there you will see all the messages you have sent out and the ones you have received. I believe it will be around April 29....I think you have grossly misunderstood something I have stated. I never ever condone scaring others to make a profit. I could do that all day if I wanted to....How many times in how many places do i have to say this.....If I post something negative on a stock it is because it is true. don't lie and cheat people to sell. If one person can show me where I lied , more power to them....Most of the big traders sell everything they have and then tell you what the problem is AFTER they have sold...Then when you are worried they are saying how everybody needs to be holding and you know the rest..I am not like that....As soon as I see a negative I say it...So who do you think is
going to get the bad name? Yeah thats right the guy always bringing the problems to the table...You can think I am stupid or whatever you want but I was telling Gabard 3 weeks ago that this was falling apart for MIDL. before anyone else. Wouldn't you like for me to have told you? But why should I would have suffered all of your and others abuse for it.
Can you imagine what abuse I would have taken if I would have tried to come to the thread with a pack lies as they would have called them......You and lot of others have a lot to learn about who you can trust and who should be avoided....As far as that message you say you
have if you can't get it where you can prove it I would like a retraction from you on the thread because you have miscronstrued the meaning......Jim
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To: James Bender (who wrote...)
From: grw5
Wednesday, Jun 17 1998 12:41PM ET
Thanks for showing me where that was.
Okay, first of all, in rereading everything I can see where perhaps you could have been talking about others (marked with bold text)[edit - bold text referred to is quite a ways down] instead of to me personally. However, at the time, your use of "we" felt personal and the statement, in general, came across like a put-down. (hey, don't bother me kid - I don't need your support) At the time, I let it go because I wasn't sure you weren't just having a bad day and tired of being jumped on by everyone else and I didn't think it wasn't worth the time it would take to straighten it out. Especially since I didn't know for sure if you meant it that way or not. This is what I meant about putting a twist in things that rubbed people the wrong way.
I never ever condone scaring others to make a profit. I could do that all day if I wanted to....How many times in how many places do i have to say this.....If I post something negative on a stock it is because it is true.
Now, this comment in italics, I don't mean to accuse you of that in any way and, like Binder, I frequently agree with your comments and ideas whether others like them or not. I don't think you've lied either or tried to manipulate others. And probably, you are guilty of the same thing Gary does, in that you don't think others are going to put as much importance on what you say as they do. I know. That's not your fault, but it happens. You are a little more astute than most and consequently the internet sheep (those too lazy to do their own work and absolutely don't want to accept responsibility for their own choices) are dragging on your coat tails. Well, that's the way it is, like it or not. They loved ya till they thought you betrayed 'em... and now... they hate ya. Your still the same guy, but you destroyed one of their idols(you) and to them that's worse than lying... and sorry I don't have any answers. You didn't climb up on that pedestal. They put you there, but hey... life's a bitch and then you die. Anyway... some of that may have rubbed off on me a little or else I don't think I would have reacted as strongly as I did. (Who does he think he is talking to me like that?)
This is getting way too long and I'm going to start getting redundant, but I thought it was necessary to clear the air. And... since you took the time to respond, it was necessary for me to put some time and thought into what I wanted to say.
Best of luck,
George
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To: James Bender
From: grw5 Wednesday, Apr 29 1998 2:10AM ET
Ditto your last EUTO post. I've become more and more a lurker - if I don't post they can't bitch.
I still think EUTO has good long term potential, that's real world long term not internet, and am looking forward to seeing what flowers might sprout from EUTO stock dividends.
Still waiting for some sort of resolution with the 50M. Regardless of what it is, it will help to get it resolved.
Take care and best of luck,
George
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To: grw5 (who wrote...)
From: James Bender Wednesday, Apr 29 1998 2:39AM ET
I hope we all make money, but from the moment we buy the same stock we are advisaries. Each trying to buy something before the next guy and then trying to hold it a little longer than the next guy, but sell it first...I admire the power of the longs, but you have to have faith to do it, and still employ your 20-20 vision. Some on the thread are not. But it isn't that they don't think I know what I am talking about, it is the fact they can't afford for me to be right. Hasn't anyone wondered why I am not rosey on the company when I should be, and why prominent names keeps disappearing from the thread. To each his own....good luck...ALYA is looking good keep an eye on it...Jim
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To: grw5 (who wrote...)
From: James Bender
Wednesday, Jun 17 1998 3:24PM ET
George I stand by my post to you earlier....When you and I own the same stock at some time we want the same thing and we can't both have. And I think you are smart enough to know that....WE ALL CAN"T MAKE A PROFIT, there has to be some losers out there...I would appreciate it if you would clear my name by posting something that shows I did not
post something dark and evil to you...If I slammed you I would do the same as I have done for others...have a good day....jim
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To: James Bender (who wrote...)
From: grw5
Wednesday, Jun 17 1998 4:34PM ET
Well,,,, I went back and reread the post regarding <it's not what you say, but how you say it>and I have to say that I, also, stand by my previous post. I think you rub some people the wrong way not so much by what you say but how you say it.
Also, I do not believe that it HAS to be a zero-sum game and although USUALLY some investors make money and some lose. I believe that BOTH investors can win, BOTH can lose, BOTH break even, one can make or lose more than the other, and of course you can have the one up/one down scenario, but I do not believe that it is NECESSARY to treat another investor as an adversary.
So,,, here's what I'm willing to do. Either I can paste all of the private messages together into one mega-post and bore everyone to death letting them read our different points of view so that they can decide for themselves.... or I will agree to not make anymore posts TO or ABOUT you, provided you will do me the same courtesy.
Sincerely,
George Webber
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To: grw5 (who wrote...)
From: James Bender
Wednesday, Jun 17 1998 4:46PM ET
posts the messages and you will see who is right....Jim
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