Your versus, untouched, uncommented on, your comments, directly on each one?
It saddens me that you're taking some bigotry against Islam as revelation. Instead of going out and studying the Qur'an yourself, you posts bits and phrases that AntiIslamic sites have posted here and there. And instead of sticking to our original discussion (which has not advanced to Islam yet...remember? We're still on Muhammad (Pbuh) being in the Bible and the contradictions which exist in it??) you're now attacking anything you see.
I hope others reading our conversation see who is looking for any way out to prove he is right and who is reserved and willing to answer all that comes his way. Hopefully we can get back to the Contradictions, an area you have yet to answer.
"Fight and slay the pagans (non-Muslims) wherever you find them." (Surah 9:5)
Nice try but this verse was only speaking about during a war in which the Pagans were killing the Muslims. Do you find Muslims killing Pagans around the world every day? Of course not, despite what you may want to believe.
The only reason Muslims can fight is to defend their religion from being persecuted by Pagans. This specific verse was touching upon a specific time when the Muslims were allowed to defend themselves and fight against the Pagans.
The way the verse has been taken out of context is not at all surprising. (Notice how this is from Surah 9)
"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be
accepted of him; and in the hereafter he will be in the ranks of
those who have lost." (Surah 3:85)
Yes, Muslims believe that Islam is the true path to God. Muslims believe that Jesus (Pbuh) and Abraham (Pbuh) were both Muslims. That both Prophets taught the same message of Islam.
Those who join partners with God or who deny any of the Prophets sent by God would be classified as not accepting Islam, which in translation means "Peace" (Derived from the same root word as "Shalom"). And of course, the most important tenet in Islam is to worship none other than the One True God.
"Fight those who believe not in God nor the last day... nor acknowledge the religion of truth, and fight people of the book, until they pay Jizya (penalty tax) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." (Surah 9:29)
Again, this verse was revealed specifically during the time when the Pagan were attacking the Muslims. Read the verse before it and you see the clarity:
9:28
O ye who believe! Truly
The Pagans are unclean;
So let them not,
After this year of theirs,
Approach the Sacred Mosque
And if ye fear poverty
Soon will God enrich you
If He wills, out of his Bounty,
For God is all Knowing, All wise."
What's clear is that this verse was speaking specifically to the Muslims who were being persecuted and killed. (Notice how this is also from Surah 9)
"..Strike terror [into the hearts of] the enemies of God and your enemies."(Surah 8:60)
Again, this verse is being quoted out of context. It's speaking specifically to when Muslims are being killed. Read the very next verse, 61:
But if the enemy
Incline towards Peace,
Do thou (Also) incline
Towards Peace, and trust
In God: For He Is the One
That Heareth and Knoweth
(All things).
Reading this verse makes it clear that 60 was speaking about Muslims being killed by the "enemy" which in this case were the Pagans. Notice how verse 61 says, "If the enemy incline towards Peace." That conditional statement makes it clear that verse 60 was referring to when the enemy incline not towards peace.
Again, these types of deceptions will only fool 2 kinds of people:
A. Those that Hate Islam
B. Those that are too lazy to verify it
"And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree over them". Surah 2:228
According to Islam, both women and men are equal
4:19
"....On the Contrary,
Live with (Women)
On a footing of kindness and equity."
However, In Islam, men and certain rights over women just as women have certain rights over men. For example, The Man in Islam must provide Food, Housing, etc. for his wife. It's required for him to do so. If the woman chooses to work, all the money she makes is for hers to keep and used at her discretion. In other words, she has no requirement to share anything she makes with her husband.
The verse you are quoting is talking specifically about what Muslims should do in a matter of divorce. When it says, "Men have a degree over them," it's not talking about before the eyes of God. It's talking about in matters of restitution and severance of property. Since the Man must provide food, clothing, housing, etc. for a wife should he get married after the divorce, he inherits more than the woman does from the divorce. The Woman is guaranteed all those needs should she get married, but the man must provide them. So in these situations, the man gets more than the wife (not much more) so that he can be able to provide if he gets married.
What I want to stress is that Islam is not discouraging women from working. It simply makes the Man provide for the wife in all needs. She can work if she wants but if it were her desire, the man would be bound by law to see she is provided for if she chose not to work.
So in this specific case, Islam gives the women more right than the man.
A. In court witness "And get two witnesses out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women such as ye choose for witness." Surah 2:282 B. In inheritance "To the male a portion equal to that of two females". Surah 4:11
As explained above, the man gets more inheritance because he needs to provide. It's not a matter of the woman getting less but the man needing more because of the role he has.
"...as to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them..." Surah 4:34
There is no word "beat" in the Arabic. This verse speaks about those women that may commit adultery. It instructs the man to refuse to share their beds and not continue to provide. There is no ask of "beating" in the Arabic however I have seen AntiIslamic sites translate this way to shed hatred on Islam.
The man is instructed to treat a woman with kindness and love.
The problem is twofold: First of all, those people who make such objections usually only have a very superficial knowledge of what the true teachings of Islam, and secondly, they do not realize what The Bible requires of all believing women.
Women in both religions is an entirely different subject, but did you know the Bible said this?
1 Timothy 2:11-14 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."
1 Corinthians 14:34 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."
In fact, in many verses, the Bible makes these things clear:
1) Women should learn in silence and subjugation.
2) Women should not teach.
3) Women should not have authority over men but should remain silent.
4) Adam and Eve were not equal in sin. Adam was not deceived but Eve was.
5) Women are commanded to be under obedience to men. God ordained that men shall for all time rule over women
6) Women must keep silent in Churches. It is shameful for them to open their mouths therein. If they have a question they should ask their husbands before going to church and then their husbands will ask for them in the church.
7) A woman should neither pray nor profess with her head uncovered.
8) If a woman prays with her head uncovered then she might as well shave her head.
9) Man was created in the image and glory of God, and Woman was created in the glory of Man, thus Man must have power over her.
10) Any woman who delivers a male baby shall be unclean for one week. But any woman who delivers a female baby shall be unclean for TWO weeks. Thus, females make their mothers DOUBLY unclean as compared to males.
11) While it is possible to find one upright man in every thousand, it is impossible to find even one single upright woman in every thousand
12) Woman is a snare, her heart is a trap, and her hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but she will ensnare the sinner.
13) If a woman had her period and touches a chair or a bed or anything else then that item immediately becomes unclean. Anyone who then touches those things shall also become unclean. They must then bathe themselves and wash their clothes because they have touched an item that a menstruous woman has touched.
All large claims but I have scripture for each and every one.
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them...and lie and wait for them...; but if they repent and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity then open the way for them". Surah 9:5
This is similar to what was said before. This was only talking specifically about when Muslims were being persecuted. The Qur'an says quite clearly
"There shall be no compulsion in religion."
No one is required to accept Islam. The Qur'an is both a warning and a plea but there is no force used for anyone choosing religion.
"The Jews call Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the truth". Surah 9:30
Not sure what you are asking. I told everyone that Muslims do not believe God had a "literal" son. This verse testifies that people of the past used to make the same accusations against God, saying that he had a son and so forth.
If we think about it logically, we must consider whether God had a son or not. For God to have a son, that son must have 2 qualities: (A)The son must owe his life to God and (B) must be the same kind of a being as God.
The problem is each attribute eliminates the possibility of the other attribute. If he owes his life to God, then he isn't the same kind of a being as God sin God doesn't owe his life to anyone.
If he's the same kind of a being as God, well then he's no one's son. So as you can see, the failure in Logic and Reason exists.
Christians wish to interpret Jesus's referral to God as "Father" as a literal one even though there is evidence to the contrary (John 9). One specific mention is when Jesus said That God was His father and that the Jews' father was the Devil.
Do you think he was being literal in both parts? Did he literally mean the Jews father was the Devil?
But if they violate their oath after their covenant, and taunt you for your faith, fight (kill) ye the chiefs of unfaith: for their oaths are nothing to them". Surah 9:12
This is also from Surah 9 which has been the source of all the verses you are positing concerning the "fight" phrases. Again, the specific reference was to Muslims being persecuted by Pagans.
The verse is talking how the Pagans violated their oath to not Harm any Muslims (contrary to what your AntiIslamic Literature says). That's clear from this verse alone.
The women and the men guilty of adultery or fornication, flog each of them with a hundred stripes..." Surah 24:2
Adultery in Islam is punishable by Death (only if there is adequate proof that the person did commit adultery).
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of the hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land..." Surah 5:36
This is talking only about serious crimes against God. There are a few acts in Islam punishable by Death and among them are murder, adultery, and suicide.
(Just kidding about the last one guys :-)
... and delicious fruits, drinking exquisite wines, and engaging in sex with virgins. "They will recline on carpets whose inner linings will be of rich brocade: the fruit of the gardens will be near. In them will be (Maidens), Chaste, restraining their glances, whom no man or Jinn before them has touched (virgins)." Surah 55:54-46
Oooh......talking about Paradise here. Paradise is described as unimaginable. Where there will be the most indulging food and drink. Where rivers flow underneath and humankind can have whatever it desires. The ultimate gift or luxury in Paradise for the Muslim is to see God.
"On the other hand, for those
Who fear their Lord
Are Gardens, With Rivers
Flowing beneath; therein
Are they to dwell forever
A gift from the Presence of God
is the best Bliss
For the righteous
And there are, certainly
Among the People of the Book
Those who believe in God
In the Revelation to you,
And in the revelation to them,
Bowing in humility to God
They will not sell
The Signs of God
For a miserable Gain!
For there is a reward
With their Lord
And God is swift in account
O Ye who believe!
Persevere in patience
And constancy; vie
In such persevereance
Strengthen each other
And Fear God
That ye may prosper."
The Qur'an 3:198-200.
Well Steve, there ya have it. I answered your post. So now is it too much to ask my questions? Or am I the only one that answers anything?
I'm wanting you to answer the few contradictions that I have listed before. If you need another list of them, please don't hesitate to ask. I want to know why you accept the Bible while knowing the contradictions that exist. I look forward to it.
May the Peace and Blessings of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful, Be Upon You.
Ray
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