To all. A response to that post on Yahoo!:
re: some thoughts on TTRIF
August 21, 1998
Yarnbender,
All your thoughts and questions ignore the factual evidence that Rene has been dishonest and is unscrupulous in his business dealings. This has been shown time and time again in his contradictory newsreleases, lack of disclosure when it could be damaging (and items I believe break securities laws or at least exist very much on the fringe of breaking them), and construction dates and reasons for delays.
> a group rabid over the non-deliverance of engineering
> documents...a fellow by the name of Clement who sees
> the sagacity of Trooper waiting for the maturation of a
> building plan with respect to rendering plants, but
> chastizes TTRIF for not building a whole lot of plants
> first and retro-fitting after (for the benefit of
> the shareholder!). What gives?
Here's what gives: Trooper began asking for the blueprints for a few years now. They've never owned the technology but merely held the rights to the technology. Thermo Tech on the other hand has had (before Invesco came in for Trooper), far more resources than Trooper had. Thus to compare Trooper to Thermo Tech is absurd as it does not take that into account and compares the two companies as equals. I would also point out that the Eastern European market has changed significantly since the deal was inked and rebounded from its years of socialist rule . To build plants at the early stage of such an economic recovery would have been silly from an economic point of view -- where as in North America, Thermo Tech had been claiming that Corinth was already profitable.
Insofar as my comments, I have also stated that they should have built more plants than spending it all on stock promotion, and administration. Or is it your opinion that increased and unnecessary bureaucracy and stock promotion contributes to shareholder value?
re: Corinth -- I don't speak for those you have mentioned and I do not intend to now. However I do not recall any of them saying that it was a fraud. Care to dig up the points and the contexts in which they were written in?
Your comments (summarized): You mock a few TPP shareholders for criticizing the slow construction at Richmond and for claiming that Conrinth does not work while wanting to get the plans that have been derived from the Corinth plant.
Reality check: Personally I do not think that the TMPs are working as well as stated or else they would be able to get better returns on their waste. However, regardless of the viewpoints of those that you mention, the fact remains: the courts ordered TTRIF to hand over the documents three times. And on each of those three occasions, TTRIF did not hand them over. And on each of those occasions and in the time leading up to those occasions, inconsistent remarks were made as to whether they were handed over and what they would need to hand over and why they were holding things back.
So my question to you: how do you reconcile their many inconsistent statements about construction, about what they need to hand over, about the testimonies of RB and DC, about the fact that they said that they already handed things over? Would it be your opinion then that they have already handed over all the documents now as opposed to before? Are they being more truthful now than before? And you believe them because they told you so?
> In three years from the Corinth problems, Rene
> and his team (out-sourced or not) have forged a
> real commercial industrial tool. The battle has been
> a brutal one, and the people who sought to benefit
> from merely a stock play (what else???) are livid
> that they have had capital tied up and further
> that a tremendous meal ticket (ala VSE style of
> play) was (by their reactions) misused.
You forget that Thermo Tech used to be on the VSE itself. The argument that I and others have made is that Thermo Tech has been lucrative to some -- namely Rene and his cronies with Reg S and Reg D deals, while shareholders have consistently been short changed. That the technology was developed was not because of Rene but in spite of Rene and his team. The argument has always been made that the technology could be very lucrative -- and significantly more than is currently the case except for the fact that it has been managed miserably. BTW don't bother asking what I would now because my answer to you would be this: prudent management is not bungling over and over again your business relationships -- IBR and TPP are examples of only two of the agreements that they screwed up.
> Other people have had the opportunity to commercialize
> the thermophyllic process, but Rene has by sheer
> dogged perserverance prevailed to this point. Is that
> an indication of mis-management?
If you wish to look for mismanagement, compare the many newsreleases by Thermo Tech regarding the Trooper saga. As I have said in the past, this saga while it may not have started out as a significant financial item, (though it may turn out to be one), but it has shown how management reacts. Look at Corinth -- why was it shut down? I've been told a multitude of reasons at varying times. Which reason should I believe?
> I've read the arguments against, and have
> assessed the personalities of his antagonists.
Oh is the point where we're supposed to bow to your great sense of judgement? In the past you have argued over and over (unsuccessfully might I add) why Trooper does not deserve anything and indeed why Trooper would lose. What makes your sense of judgement any better now -- especially given the lack of concrete information and comical examples that you give?
> Rene can't afford the million dollar CEO that
> can easily close fifty plant deals, if there is
> such a one out there. I haven't met a child who
> can run a four minute mile either.
I've met many a people who are very charismatic but honest as well. Who's asking for someone to close 50 plant deals? Why not just close 5 plants or 1 or two without a hitch? By the way -- how was that Harvey Ambrose deal financed? Or how has the plant in Richmond been paid for?
> Rene's strategy since the mid-eighties has been
> to prove up the process, test-plant the process,
> get a commercial model going, trouble-shoot the
> model, measure the result, get the results
> independantly verified, take the endorsement to
> the financial markets.
Your embellishments certainly do not do your root arguments justice. Rene has cheated and lied through the entire process while becoming extremely wealthy (at least according the reports of his possessions and hobbies that include thoroughbred horses). Rene's strategy has certainly netted large financial gains to those who have lent him money. And at the same time, he has been fairly slow at developing the technology. Hmm... paradox or correlation?
> Because he has used through-out the scientific
> method that has brought about and sustained the
> industrial revolution that we've enjoyed these past
> three hundred years, there is a good chance that he'll
> succeed.
And those methods would be...?
> There have been many growth supporting achievements
> by TTRIF this past year. I just hope that the financing
> is a reality. The securing of that deal will allow the
> whole team to adjust to the real achievements of this
> past year and re-focus on the next horizon..and deals
> will indeed follow.
You simply hope? I thought it was a done deal at least according to your comrades. You may not speak for other shareholders but if you have doubts that the financing is a reality, are you also saying that you don't trust Rene?
Quite simply, there is always more than 1 way to skin a cat. And it simply seems that Thermo Tech has chosen the most difficult route for its shareholders each and every single time.
True leadership is about honesty and integrity in the worst of moments. Rene may look like a freak as you seem to say -- and I really don't know, and so may Stan for that matter, and I really don't know. But in the end, what matters is the results and what those results cost.
That dwarf in Germany -- was he a liar and cheat as well?
Clement |
